Your geekiness is showing on this blog - too technical for the average joe (even though as a layperson I recognize that .csv means comma separated values and can be imported into an excel file as I have suggested in your original blog on this issue).

I could say more on this, but choose not to.

But, isn't the bigger question this: All 308 MPs do the same sort of constituency work. So why isn't there a gov't provided piece of software to do this for all 308 ridings? One where you couldn't link or download to your party's election tracking database?

The issue then disappears, doesn't it? So, if you are booted out and become an independent, your constituents don't lose out, and there is a continuity of EDA constituent info and case files in the event the incumbent loses in the general election.

Isn't that the bigger issue, apart from the partisan stuff Turner wants to pursue?

Heck, if these programs already exist, and most of the main parties use some form of constituency database software, why not standardize, pick a program, merge the info collected at the constituency level, and provide the software through the government to all 308 ridings, their riding data for their ridings only. And control access and use of persoanl data under the privacy laws of the Gov't of Canada.

Seems the next logical step to me.

Posted by: Old Enough to Remember at October 22, 2007 11:06 PM

---

What I don't understand is that even if there are 2 seperate programs and even if there is no way to easily merge databases, doesn't that just mean a few hours of someone sitting there with a print-out of the constit database manually typing it into the campaign database?

I mean, in the old days before computers wouldn't MP's have kept "little black books" of supporters and non-supporters and those who owe them favours (hey it happens even though we don't want it to) created from the day to day business of being an MP?

Posted by: Paul M at October 22, 2007 11:14 PM

---

If the local AdminElect file dumped its contents out in order for the information to be pull into ManagElect, it certainly would make sense for the intermediate file to be a csv file (most of us know what a csv file is, of course):

table-name,field-name,field-length,field-type,is-empty,field-value
table-name,field-name,field-length,field-type,is-empty,field-value
table-name,field-name,field-length,field-type,is-empty,field-value

Like I said, though, it could be a lot of things. But if I was, let's say, a privacy advocate, I might be curious to get an exact explanation of what the functionality of this curiously named file was, especially considering the context in which in it used (as outlined in the post).

Posted by: Steve Janke at October 23, 2007 05:49 AM

---

So much for Garths claims that Mr Janke (his words not mine haha) doesnt do his homework and his credibility is in shatters.

What kind of MP do we have in Halton that has to try to take pot shots at a blogger in the House of Commons.

Garth posted his speech yesterday in response to the throne speech and if you need to go to the bathroom or have 10 minutes of your life to spare, go to www.garth.ca/mptv and check it out.

Mike Wallace, MP for Burlington rips into him for his town hall meeting (he claims Mike never had town halls, that of which is untrue) and then asks him if he supports senate reform...

Garth then claims hell answer the question but then goes on about how people in the riding of Burlington ran to him to have a town hall, but never answers the question.

Two smackdowns in the House. I wonder if hell take the day off.

Posted by: Halton Resident at October 23, 2007 07:54 AM

---

I've only ever had the need for the services of a constituancy office once in the past, and that was to assist someone with the expediting of their Landed Immigrant status. So, I'm not perhaps as familiar with others as to what type of personal info might be collected in the office's day to day operations that might be useful in an election campaign.

Perhaps unlisted phone numbers, cell phones or e-mail addresses etc.

What else? Names of family members? One would presume SINs or date of birth info would have limited political value - or actually be detrimental in collecting or using (I'd be pissed if I got a birthday card from a politician). My personal concern is limiting access to others for improper or unauthorized use (ie commercial use).

Actually, in the past, I have encountered this privacy issue with a political party. Like many others, I became an instant member to vote in their leadership contest. Although I had joined through the national office, I then found my name was made available to the local EDA of the party. As I wished to remain locally anonymous, and was concerned with having my name downloaded and being used for whatever and by whomever happened to be working at that office at any given time, I wrote to the party pointing out I had not provided permission to have my name shared with the local EDA.

They subsequently added a privacy policy that you need to agree with when you sign up providing them permission to do so.

But, what was interesting was that their legal counsel advised that, unlike government agencies, political parties are not covered by Fed Privacy laws:

Thank you for your e-mail outlining your privacy concerns related to our membership list and website. We have looked into your concerns and it appears that the Privacy Act [is] only related to personal information held by government institutions.

We have dealt with this issue before relating to the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and have obtained a legal opinion on the issue of the organization providing its membership list to its chapters (ie. EDAs). Counsel has stated the Act does not prohibit the Party distribution of the list to its chapters so long as it is done without charge and that the chapter does not sell the list to any third parties.

The issue, it appears is ethical and not legal, as reinforced in this CP story:

Logging constituent files in a central party database that may also be used as part of election planning, fundraising, advertising strategy and policy deliberation appears to be clearly offside, two nationally respected privacy experts told The Canadian Press.

"If somebody contacts their MP because they're having a problem with their CPP benefit or their military pension, they don't expect to end up on a mailing list for a political party," said David Fraser, a Halifax lawyer who specializes in privacy issues with the firm McInnes Cooper.

"If they are going to end up on a mailing list, I think there's an ethical obligation to inform them and give them the opportunity to opt out."

Michael Geist, a law professor who serves as the Canada research chair of Internet and e-commerce law at the University of Ottawa, agrees.

"When you're going to your local MP with a concern or a problem, there is a certain level of confidentiality," said Geist.

"The notion that it's simply a data point that gets used to characterize the particular constituent could have a bit of a chilling effect."

Nonetheless, the Conservatives are likely within the letter of Canada's privacy laws, because they are neither a government agency nor considered a commercial operation.

Geist argues that political parties' fundraising efforts might make them liable under the commercial privacy law, known as PIPEDA, but Fraser says the legislation as written suggests otherwise.

"Generally, political parties aren't regulated with respect to how they collect, use and disclose personal information," said Fraser.

http://www.privacylawyer.ca/blog/2007/10/tory-database-draws-ire.html

That's why I suggest it would be better, legally, if this constituancy management software is provided by the government- so that Fed privacy laws would apply.

This would not, however, prevent local EDAs from continuing to collect personal info - whether it is stored in merge.csv, on a rollodex, in a spreadsheet, or a log book. It would still be an ethical issue which can't really be policed fully, in my opinion. And no doubt most parties ae doing this in some form.

Posted by: Old Enough to Remember at October 23, 2007 08:11 AM

---

Good job, Steve.

I love it!

Posted by: zilla at October 23, 2007 05:45 PM

---

I wonder what is being merged, exactly.

Your money and their bank account. They're politicians. What did you expect?

"If they are going to end up on a mailing list, I think there's an ethical obligation to inform them and give them the opportunity to opt out."

Ha ha, what a kidder. The very act of trying to live off other people's money - taken as a cut out of the funds taken away from them in return for providing (or pretending to provide) monopolized services against which it is illegal to compete or to boycott - is by definition unethical. The kind of person whose undying ambition is to live in this way is not going to be disuaded from making illicit or dishonest use of your personal information by concerns of ethics or privacy. If they had any respect for you, they wouldn't climb on your back like a parasite and then tell you that you'd be lost without their "help".

Posted by: at October 23, 2007 06:49 PM

---

This is some good work. However, this story reminds me of the Toronto Star's report a few days ago about the PMO's intention to build a government press centre. It was speculative. They didn't ask the government about it. It basically blew up in their face.

Finding the existence of the questionable file is great. However, why stop there? Why stop at the speculation? Why not call the database company about it? Why not call Liberal MP's about it? Ask them what they use it for. Sift out an answer.

That way, you won't have to resort to speculation, as some have accused you of doing in the past. You'll have some answers and non-answers from the parties involved, and even the latter end up shedding some light on the situation.

Just a suggestion. Otherwise, pretty good work.

Posted by: Dennis (Second Thots) at October 24, 2007 10:22 AM

---

Or, talk to database experts about it, too. Show them what you have, they'll get back to you on their thoughts. Privacy experts too.

Again, just some suggestions. Carry on.

Posted by: Dennis (Second Thots) at October 24, 2007 10:24 AM

---

Abstract paintings
Angel painting
animal paintings
ballet paintings
beach painting
Boat painting
building painting
Children painting
Christ painting
church painting
City painting
Cottage painting
Dancer painting
field painting
Floral paintings
Garden painting
Hunting paintings
impressionist painting
Knight painting
Lady painting
Landscape painting
Lighthouse paintings
Music painting
Nude painting
Oriental paintings
Piano painting
Seascapes paintings
Still Life paintings
street painting
sunset painting
Tropical paintings
Venice paintings
Village painting
wine paintingsalvador dali paintings
thomas kinkade paintings
pablo picasso paintings
vincent van gogh paintings
claude monet paintings
diego rivera paintings

Posted by: aswkin at July 17, 2008 09:09 AM

---