Is Garth Turner making you pay for an expensive targeted mail campaign?
Another example of a generic Garth Turner tour flyer being delivered by individually addressed envelopes to people in the areas where he will be making an appearance. Another example from what might be an expensive advertising campaign being paid for by taxpayers, but more interesting is what the recipients have in common.
It could explain why we're being made to pay for this.
In my last post, I decided that it looked like Garth Turner and over a dozen other Liberal MPs were using franked mail to send generic flyers ahead of Turner's appearances on his western speaking tour (the Lost Tory Tour).
Garth Turner had said that this tour was not going to cost the taxpayer anything. But franked mail is quite expensive (same as first class mail). There is a cheaper alternative called a 10 percenter that costs maybe a nickel per sheet, but the material can only be distributed to broad areas as defined by postal code, and not to more than 10% of the households in a riding.
The content of the Garth Turner mail is a generic flyer -- essentially a 10 percenter being delivered at full postal rates instead of bulk.
I wondered why he would be doing this. In the mean time, I received another scan of another franked mail. This mail came from Liberal MP Massimo Pacetti in Quebec, and contained a Garth Turner flyer sent by first class mail to Calgary, with you and me picking up the cost of the stamp:
Another delivery to a particular household in an addressed envelope, but containing a generic flyer.
A grocery store would go broke in a week if it was required to pay 50 cents for every flyer it delivered.
But here's the thing that isn't apparent. The images in the last post were from a flyer delivered to a 60-year-old woman. The flyer pictured above was sent (by mail) to a 67-year-old man.
If you send a 10 percenter, the flyers go to each household in an area, and there is nothing you can do about it. But then 10 percenters were envisioned to be surveys anyway.
But if want the material to go to specific people only, let's say predominantly seniors who might be susceptible to claims that the new income trust taxation rules were going to cripple their retirement plans, then you need to get mailing lists and start individually addressing envelopes. And that means you have to pay Canada Post the full cost to get those envelopes to their specific destinations.
That could be very expensive.
Unless of course you're one of a bunch of MPs. Your franking privileges allow you to just let the taxpayer pick up the tab.
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Comments
Keep digging on this Steve, you'll find every party does this and the worst culprit that I'm aware of is Jack Layton who regularly sends franked, enveloped 10 percenters into ridings the NDP does not hold. I live in a Conservative riding and I've had 5 of these delivered in 2007 alone. The Libs send them occasionally too and I'm fairly sure the Conservatives also send 10 percenters into ridings they don't hold. I'm not sure if they all use franked envelopes, if they do that may explain why nobody in Ottawa is bringing this up.
Posted by: Petri Striko at September 6, 2007 12:12 PM
The use of 10 percenters to send flyers in ridings held by other parties is well documented. They all do it. They all have elaborate organizations to do it efficiently. And they are all equally guilty of corrupting the spirit of the 10 percenter, or of cleverly using the tool to get there message to where an incumbent controls much of the communication, depending on your point of view.
If a party were to use franked mail to do the same thing, though, the hue and cry goes up because of the massive expense (ten times the cost).
What I think is important here is that Garth Turner's Lost Tory Tour was supposed to be a no-cost-to-taxpayer thing, and instead we have these franked mailings from over a dozen Liberal MPs. I'm trying to square-the-circle and show that these mailings really didn't cost anything, but everything suggests otherwise.
Why then leads to the question: Why franked mail and not a dirt cheap ten-percenter?
And that's why you have this post.
Posted by: Steve Janke at September 6, 2007 12:19 PM
I have received flyers from Jack Layton in Edmonton but they were not personally addressed - therefore these would be I think the cheaper 10 percenters which are sent to targetted postal codes.
My big question is WHERE did Garth Turner get his mailing list???? My name was on it. And, if Garth purchased a mailing list there would be a cost. Who paid the cost?
It would look like the taxpayer's costs for this Liberal /Conservative bashing Turner ego tour could mount into over $100,000.
Consider this: the taxpayer is footing the bill for his air fare for himself and his wife if not others in his entourage; postage costs, printing/stuffing and collating costs, wages for his Halton constituency staff who he claims have been working their buns off on this escapade; wages for other constituency staffers from other ridings?
My quedtion: NONE OF THIS propaganda tour is FOR HALTON, Turner's own constituency. The very people he gets this funding , office, allowance and salary to serve.
In my opinion this is Liberal party business which has NO BUSINESS being conducted out of a constituency office.
If YOUR MP was doing this - using his riding office for partisan politics instead of as a service centre for residents would you be a little ticked off?
Political campaign offices are separate for a good reason. They are expences to be paid for by the political parties - NOT the taxpayer.
If the Liberal party was picking up the tab on this I would have no trouble with it. But, here is a blatant example of how the Liberals can rip off the taxpayer even when they are not in charge of the pursestrings.
Scary huh.
Oh - and Garth justifies it of course.
Posted by: Lorraine at September 6, 2007 12:25 PM
" Every party does this." Yes, that's the point, party. But Garth has proclaimed this to be a no-cost tour; just a little trip of his own out west, nothing to do with the Liberal party, motivated by his fans asking him to come out and speak to them , volunteers offering up the halls and the rooms for him. He was using his expenses saved from driving to and from Ottawa. It was a frugal MP's trip with no cost to the taxpayer.
Posted by: muttsrus at September 6, 2007 12:27 PM
...I want one! I want one!
Posted by: tomax7 at September 6, 2007 12:35 PM
The onus is on MP Garth to prove that his western tour is a so-called "no additional cost to the Canadian taxpayer" ... by producing a list of all the expenses incurred and where the money came from.
For MP Garth to proclaim that there is no additional cost is not enough ... and he and the Liberal party must fess up will an accounting of all monies spent on this western jaunt.
Posted by: Observer at September 6, 2007 12:38 PM
Maybe someone in Calgary can go to the meeting on the 12th and ask the question?
Posted by: Phil in Ottawa at September 6, 2007 01:07 PM
Yes ... I've received mail from LIberal MP Offices in Regina, New Brunswick and Quebec.
I'm very popular it seems! I'd like to know where they got my address for their mailing list.
Posted by: OMMAG at September 6, 2007 02:00 PM
Yeah, tomax7, but I want several to line the bird cage, imagine their sturdy and hold a lot of poop.
Posted by: Libby at September 6, 2007 02:06 PM
If you read this JOURNALIST's article it states Garth was a minister of revenue of the Mulroney government....
UM nope. Seems THAT journalist forgot to check the facts...
It was Campbells govt...for like 3 months....he was minister...and did nothing.
I wonder if hell go after THAT journalist as he goes after Steve on his credibility and checking facts? Probably not.
Posted by: Interview with Goof ball at September 6, 2007 02:11 PM
The LIBS are trying as they might to get the CPC on the "ad funding" but it doesnt seem to stick very much. I think THIS might actually hurt Garth, courtesy of his big mouth.
Posted by: Lucy...you have some splainin to do at September 6, 2007 02:58 PM
I was visiting my 65 year old Father in Calgary about three weeks ago and there was one of these letters on his desk. He threw it out promptly so I can't scan it for you, but it was identical to the others you have posted here. Garth is definitely targeting an older audience and thus using franked mail.
Great work Steve!
Posted by: James at September 6, 2007 03:17 PM
Yeah, tomax7, but I want several to line the bird cage, imagine their sturdy and hold a lot of poop.
Libby, that wouldn't be a Puffin in that cage, would it?
Posted by: Joanne (TB) at September 6, 2007 03:33 PM
Just did a quick search around the internet and something struck me as interesting.
If you ask Garth or any of his followers...Garth is leading the nation, speaking out for the little guys...bla bla bla.
I went over to LIE-BLOGS... oops I meant LIBLOGS, the hosting site of many many liberal blogs and loh and behold...NO ONE on Garths side is talking about Garth....other than Garth and the CAITI groupies that follow him on his Lost Tory Tour.
If hes doing such a good job for the Liberal party, then why isnt anyone noticing on "their" side?
Could it be that the Halton MP is as irrelevant as one of McQuinty's election promises?
Posted by: Who else is talking about Garth at September 6, 2007 03:36 PM
Why do I see a freedom of information request coming in the near future for sixteen mp concerning their office budgets. LMAO, H
Posted by: Ken at September 6, 2007 03:59 PM
Why do I see a freedom of information request coming in the near future for sixteen mp concerning their office budgets. LMAO. What do the cost 25$ I think.
Posted by: at September 6, 2007 04:01 PM
Why do I see a freedom of information request coming in the near future for sixteen mp concerning their office budgets. LMAO.
Posted by: at September 6, 2007 04:02 PM
The lists come from the election canada list that each party is provided. Garth could have mailed them all himself as there is no limit on how many direct mail you can send. He used the other M.P.'s more to get the printing done through the House. As far as targeting goes until DOB is included on the list they still depend on stats canada to give postal code demographics.
Posted by: mike at September 6, 2007 04:20 PM
also MP budgets are not ATIP accessible.
Posted by: mike at September 6, 2007 04:22 PM
Steve...you gotta dump this in a western CPC MP's lap...preferably a cab-min and let them run with it. This Garthacle fecial deposting tour will be delivered still born ;-)
Posted by: WL Mackenzie Redux at September 6, 2007 05:01 PM
Really Mike and why not. It seems everything else is, why should we be able to know what the PM communication director spent on a meeting but not know how our local MP is spending his money. Why can we know what a Cabinet Minister spend on dinner at Pizza Hut but not what these 16 MPs spent out of their office budgets to do this mailing.
Posted by: at September 6, 2007 05:14 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong Steve,but is their not some law/rule, whereby if a politician receives something free exceeding $200 in value,it must be declared with the ethics commissioner.This is what screwed the Liberal's when it was discovered they were taking free flights and fishing trips from the Irvings.
Now I know that Alberta is booming,and there is a pretty good chance some of those hotel rooms are pretty costly.Would Turner not be obligated to declare all these costs?
Posted by: paulsstuff at September 6, 2007 05:47 PM
Joanne: "Libby, that wouldn't be a Puffin in that cage, would it?"
HA! Good one!
Posted by: tomax7 at September 6, 2007 06:11 PM
Libby..."this Liberal's dead!"
Garth: "No it's not, its just sleeping".
Posted by: tomax7 at September 6, 2007 06:13 PM
I don't know why Garth just didn't make arrangements to have his flyers mailed out with the old age pension cheques.
Posted by: muttsrus at September 6, 2007 06:22 PM
Turner's team have been busy ever since he got the MP's job. He has used up all but 1 householder that he's alloted for 2007. (I wonder what he's going to put in that one?) Blew them all when he was SO sure there was going to be a spring election.
His office also makes sure they send out as many 10%'ers as allowed and on top of that have a steady supply of Franked Mailers ready to send out every week. Gotta blanket the riding with Turnerism's ya know!
Turner was plenty miffed that he had to pay for all his own lit before he was elected whereas Gary Carr had lots of freebie tools at his disposal. Garth couldn't wait to get his mitts on the freebie mailers so that he could spread the "Gospel According to Garth".
Funny thing is, if Esther and her crew are busy answering calls, emails, snail mails about the Tour, how is this helping those of us back in Halton? Are we the "Forgotton Constituents"? I sure hope that they aren't giving those people outside the riding priority attention just because they've got nice stuff to say about Turner!
Posted by: A Haltonian (or is it Haltonite?) at September 6, 2007 07:42 PM
I have to say that if MY Conservative MP was using his office budget; constituency staff; constituency mailing allowances, constituency office, constituency photocopiers, phones and fax machines for political PARTY purposes, self promotion and cross country political propaganda tours unrelated AT ALL to either his caucus role or our local constituency needs I would be placing a complaint immediately to the Conservative Party HQ, the Whip and even the Prime Minister.
Those budgets are for my MP to serve HIS OWN CONSTITUENTS!!! That is what he is paid for and why we elected him locally.
I see my MP everywhere in the riding. When not in the House he is meeting with aldermen and MLAs, at community events, holding open houses at senior's centres, cultural centres, He is there to welcome new immigrants and works closely with the social service sector and the poverty action community and helping people with the thousands and thousands of government related issues that impact their lives.
I know he is busy 7 days a week pretty well day and night representing and listening to US.
WHO is representing Halton residents? Garth is spending Halton resident budgets and using Halton resident resources for Liberal party and the Income Trust special interest groups propaganda.
How does this help Halton???? Good question.
Posted by: Lorraine at September 6, 2007 08:06 PM
I smell a "Forgotten Constituents" protest at Turners constituency office...
Posted by: Paul M at September 6, 2007 08:35 PM
Garth is Dion's beard, and as goes Dion so goes Garth.
If Dion is overthrown as Liberal leader, Garth will be purged out of the Liberal party, and he knows that too.
Garth is scrambling for his survival in the Liberal party, and Dion is using him to prop himself up too.
Posted by: Observer at September 6, 2007 09:26 PM
Lorraine: I realize you're making a broader point, but FYI ... Printing and mailing costs aren't charged to a member's office budget -- they don't pull funds away from constituency services. (These costs appear in annual summaries of per-MP expenditures, but they're actually covered by the House.)
Steve: If you dig further, do report back when you confirm that the Conservative Resource Group is far and away the largest user of so-called franked mail privileges -- piggybacking on CPC MP privileges for central spam targeting residents by address using sophisticated demographic modelling tools. (Caveat digor.)
Posted by: at September 6, 2007 09:40 PM
Thats it, keep trying to justify Liberal abuse of tax dollars...
Posted by: Paul M at September 6, 2007 09:55 PM
I was not only commenting on printing and mailing costs. Whether it is from the House or otherwise the taxpayers are paying for this.
It is that Garth is using his constituency resources, staff, office, phones, etc. for political purposes NOT related to Halton's needs which is what these resources were allocated for and paid for by the taxpayer.
His little "Lost Tory" tour is NOT related to any caucus role or portfolio; has nothing to do with Halton, and is heavily related to promoting himself, Liberal protagonist messages and the vitriolic messages of the CAITI Income Trust lobby group using Garth as a taxpayer paid for front for their lobby.
In Alberta absolutely NO provincial political party work can be done out of a riding office - not even selling a party membership. There are consequences for doing this.
If you want to defend this then I question the ethics. I have no problem with 10 percenters from politicians being delivered to my door. That's [part of the political process.
But I will tell you that when I receive a mailer from the Conservative PARTY there is a STAMP on it and I have authorized the use of my address by them by purchasing a membership.
I received a postage free addressed House of Commons envelope from Garth Turner. I not only did not authroize his use of my name and address but the flyer within had nothing to do with House of Commons issues - they were Garth Turner and Income Trust investor and Liberal vitriolic messages.
I believe this to be an opportunistic abuse of resources allocated to serve Halton constituents.
Posted by: Lorraine at September 6, 2007 10:19 PM
People like to complain but no one will DO what is needed. What is needed in this situation is a formal investigation upon the completion of this Lost Tory Tour. Garths staff has to compile a list of the doners, what was donated and how much, which MP lent their mailers to the cause and how many were sent...all of this before the next federal election.
Problem is...will it happen?
Posted by: The only problem is at September 6, 2007 11:19 PM
Bottom line, who is Garth Turner other than an ELECTED Conservative representing Halton. He then took it upon himself to gradually slide his ass into an independent seat because he didn't get the attention he craved and then into a Liberal seat, all representing the people of Halton. Now he's nothing more than a back bench turncoat out seeking attention under the Liberal banner.
That's fine for the Liberals, they'll take any attention they can get and Garth is such an attention seeker due to his insatiable Ego, he'll fill that bill well.
How about the people of Halton? Do they approve of him seat hopping? Do they feel he lost credibility when he said he would never hop to another party without running in a Bye?
IS HE FILLING THE HALLS TO HEAR HIS RANTS?
Posted by: Libby at September 7, 2007 07:55 AM
Shortly after Garth Turner assumed his seat in the House of Commons his executive commented at one of the meetings that " Garth had figured out a way to get many more ten percenters out than was allowed by the house rules." It appears that Garth's less than honourable methods have gone with him to the Liberals. When Turner was a Conservative the constituency office was off limits to the Halton Conservative Association as again in Esther's words " the association can't have a meeting here as it is now a non- partisan office." Now that she works for a Liberal that is obviously not the case.
QAS
Posted by: QAS at September 7, 2007 08:53 AM
Steve: I see these revealing posts on the sleaze and deceit driving the lost tory tour are drawing Librano hacks and apologists out with the same sad dismissal tactics...you rolled the right stone over lad....the bugs are scurrying for cover.
Good work.
Posted by: WL Mackenzie Redux at September 7, 2007 09:04 AM
In case nobody has figured it out, Liberals are masters at defending the indefensible because they always create reasons to be on the defensive. They can admit no wrong, it's always someone else's fault, like the devil made me do it.
As in Adscam, the money came from the air, no known source, but a specific target, buy votes in Quebec from a fanthom voice.
That's their line. We happen to know it came from us, the long suffering taxpayers from across Canada.
Chretien and Martin the duelling dancers on political hegemony knew nothing but both were in charge of the public purse when this scandal of major proportions went down.
Why should we expect a seat hopping toad and insignificant lout like Turner to divulge what he does with his allotments?
The people of Halton have to be fed up with his nonsense.
Posted by: Libby at September 7, 2007 12:12 PM
 
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