When you have something to hide...you get nervous and aggressive. Plain and simple. Now if he doesnt have anything to hide, theres no problem is there?

His reaction along with his EA is very typical of what Halton voters have had to deal with since his election. If it has to do with him in a positive way, the doors are open. If its against him...they circle the wagons.

Posted by: Not Surprised at August 21, 2007 12:25 PM

---

I have an inkling that Garth Turner is planning to run as Leader of the Federal Liberals. I truly believe he sees himself as big boss and divine poohbah and that is why he is so dismal as a "lowly" team player or to confine his political role to something as "small and lowly" as his own constituency of Halton.

Turner ran against Kim Campbell for PC leader. She gave him a cabinet post in National Revenue as consolation which could not really have been based on skills or merit given his University degrees are in English Literature!!!

This tour is really a "look at me I'm Garth Turner!! Wow. I'm so much smarter than all of you and any Prime mInister or leader or cabinet minister who all suck when they disagree with me because I, Garth, have the Royal Jelly.

I believe he is crossing Canada to gain more adoring fans (the leftists and radicals DO love him because he feeds their need to hate other people's ideas).

When the time is right - when he has dissed Dion and Iggy and Rae and Kenny in his oh so subtle sarcastic venomous way "The Garth" will run for Liberal leader.

Posted by: Lorraine at August 21, 2007 12:44 PM

---

If anything is true, it is that simple questions are answered with simple answers and complex questions are answered with complex answers... or none at all.

Obviously, the answer wasn't a simple, "The Liberal Party is funding this junket," nor was it, "My Parliamentary budget is funding this junket." The fact that he doesn't think his constituents should know who is paying for a junket to the other side of the country says a lot.

The question was simple, but he couldn't answer it.

Posted by: Surecure at August 21, 2007 12:54 PM

---

Frankly Turner's attitude makes me think there's something smelly about who's footing the bill.

Posted by: Paul m at August 21, 2007 12:56 PM

---

Just remember that this is one person's perception of what happened. We don't have a video, for example. Like I said, if it weren't for the direct quote, I would have been far less inclined to post it. But there was a direct quote, and it's hard to spin it in any other way than that Garth Turner was not pleased with the line of questioning. And that's interesting because I really think the question was innocuous and expected the answer likely to be equally bland.

Really, what's the big deal? You're going on a tour of other ridings. The money is coming out of, what, your parliamentary budget? It's taxpayers' money, so the question is legitimate. If it's being paid for by some other source, some unorthodox source, then the question matters if the speaking tour is on behalf of the Liberal Party. If it's being paid for from some other source, but the speaking tour is a private matter unrelated to being an MP or a Liberal or a politician in general, then case closed. But then why make the point about how you could only do this sort of tour with the Liberal Party?

Posted by: Steve Janke at August 21, 2007 01:10 PM

---

Just a guess: the Income Trust lobby group may be funding it.

Posted by: at August 21, 2007 01:38 PM

---

If a lobby group is funding Garth's tour, and he is a Liberal, then would this be considered "political donations"? If so, then only individuals can "donate" not groups and only up to $1100 per person of THEIR OWN money.

And, if transportation or accomodations and other expences are being given to Garth at "no charge" these would have to be counted as "in kind" and given a value as a political donation.

AND, if the group funding him is a NOT FOR PROFIT registered group who are using Garth to do POLITICAL lobbying then they can no longer be given tax free status as a non profit entity.

So, yes, I agree , the question as to where Garth's 10 city tour fudning is coming from is absolutely relevant.

I believe he is going to be accompanying Stephane Dion - same rules apply no matter how many Liberals it takes to skrew up Canadian's minds on this tour - the only legitimate funder would be the Federal Liberal Party for ALL expences since this is a partisan trip. If Garth's constituency is picking up the tab that would be extremely disrespectful to the people of Halton not to mention against the rules.

If Garth's parliamentary allowance, which is for him to serve HALTON since he has no shadow cabinet role whatsoever, then that would be against the rulesw and misuse of funds.

If Garth is paying out of his own pocket he is limited to $1100 of his own personal money like the rest of us.

Hmmmm. Conundrum?

Posted by: Lorraine at August 21, 2007 02:05 PM

---

Perhaps the Conservative Party is footing the bill. What better way to sway the vote their way than to give the attendees a dose of Garth!??

Posted by: vinnie at August 21, 2007 02:32 PM

---

Steve,

Just posted the same question on Garth's blog re: who's paying and how is it helping Halton. Garth won't post it. I think you have hit a sore spot. Please stay on it.

Well done, Again!

Jeff

Posted by: Jeff at August 21, 2007 02:42 PM

---

Actually the veracity of the statements should be easily solved, Garth the digital democracy master video tapes all his meeting. If the statements are indeed not factual I am sure he will quickly release the footage proving them so. As to who is footing the bill, interesting question. Garth, I know you check out this blog, what is the answer.

Posted by: Ken at August 21, 2007 02:46 PM

---

Turner responds: http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2007/08/21/party-of-fear/

Basically, he accuses the accuser of being a Garth Turner stalker and says it didn't happen that way. He'll also release the details of his tour in short order.

A red flag for me is when, in defence of himself, he attacks his attackers. It's a typical Turner ploy. It's a typical ploy for anyone on the defencive. (Just type in "new republic" "scott beauchamp" and "foer" in any Google search to familiarize yourself with this ploy)

It's always about the big, bad Conservatives for Turner, and how he's just a victim of their non-stop attack machine.

Like the man says on his blog, the truth awaits.

I wonder if there is video footage of the incident. Hmmm....

Posted by: Dennis (Second Thots) at August 21, 2007 03:31 PM

---

A comment to a blogger on the thread previous to the "CRY CRY CRY Im being attacked again" thread. (Spelling mistake is his...)

Glad you aksed. The answer I gave at the meeting was concise: No taxpayer funds are being dedicated to this trip. Not a cent. Because I drive to Ottawa from my constituency (I pay my own gas, and collect no mileage money), I have saved up the travel points all MPs are given - a few of those are being used for my flights. In all cities, volunteers are picking me up and driving me around. Local groups who have arranged public meetings are renting and paying for the halls themselves. Most of my hotel rooms have been donated by supporters. Any incidental costs, like meals, will be paid for me personally and not claimed for reimbursement. Your millions, in other words, are safe. — Garth

Posted by: Garth responds at August 21, 2007 03:34 PM

---

Your millions, in other words, are safe.

Glad to hear that, Garth. You understand why Canadians are worried about our millions when Liberals are involved. You should promote your ability to put on a tour on a shoestring. Great ideas in case the Liberal Party is unable to beat the NDP in fundraising during the next quarter.

Posted by: Steve Janke at August 21, 2007 03:39 PM

---

Any one who trusts Garth Turner should have his or her head examened.

Posted by: Jan at August 21, 2007 03:40 PM

---

Then why doesnt he do his cross Canada tour online. Much cheaper and the carbon footprint on the environment is much less than it would be.

Well, for all his hot air, it might not make a difference.

Posted by: Hes a DIGITAL MP, no? at August 21, 2007 03:43 PM

---

"You understand why Canadians are worried about our millions when Liberals are involved."-Janke

It wasn't the Liberals who sliced millions, no billions from investors portfolios with Harper's famous "i wont tax income trusts" bait and switch scam.

Posted by: da prince at August 21, 2007 03:50 PM

---

Just noticed a new entry on David Akins blog. I guess he got the details of the tour before Garth.ca readers did.

http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2007/8/21/3173041.html

Garth goes West
by DavidAkin on Tue 21 Aug 2007 02:05 PM EDT

If you’re in Western Canada, watch out, Liberal MP Garth Turner is bringing his “Lost Tory” tour near you.

Now, when Turner was a Conservative, many of his caucus colleagues resented it when he’d show up in their Western riding. They thought he was grand-standing (and stealing their thunder). For many Conservative MPs, Garth’s forays into other ridings contributed to their decision to kick him out of that caucus.

But the Liberals have a different view.

“Turner will be contributing to the Party and the Leaders' narrative on broken promises and policy missteps by the Conservatives and explaining the rationale for his decision to leave the Conservatives and join the Liberals,” wrote Nicolas Ruszkowski, Director of Communications for the Opposition Leader’s Office, in an e-mail reply to a query I had. “He's also helping by spending a significant portion of time in unheld ridings, and we welcome the initiative.”

Here’s the release from Turner’s office:

The lost Tory tour

Despite a cabinet shuffle and promises of new ideas, legions of Canadians who supported the notion of a new Conservative government are very disappointed.

Income taxes were raised. Income trusts taxed. Government spending bloated. Interest rates raised. Inflation rekindled. This is not what taxpayers expected of a Tory administration. It’s not what Garth Tuner expected. The former life-long Progressive Conservative, twice-elected Conservative MP and former minister and leadership candidate was summarily tossed out of Stephen Harper’s caucus almost a year ago. The career financial author and broadcaster is now a member of the federal Liberal caucus. His daily blog (garth.ca) has become a lightening rod of opinion for those Conservative voters who, like him, think Mr. Harper has lost his way.

In response to a flood of invitations, Garth Turner will be holding a series of public, Town Hall meetings across Western Canada next month. He will be speaking on ‘What every Investor and Homeowner needs to know.’

Town Halls will be held in the following sequence:

* Tuesday Sept 4 LaBroquiere, Manitoba
* Tuesday Sept 4 Winnipeg
* Wednesday Sept 5 Regina (2)
* Thursday Sept 6 Duncan, BC
* Thursday Sept 6 Victoria
* Saturday Sept 8 Vancouver
* Sunday Sept 9 Abbotsford
* Monday Sept 10 Kelowna (2)
* Tuesday Sept 11 Edmonton (2)
* Wednesday Sept 12 Red Deer
* Wednesday Sept 12 Calgary
* Thursday Sept 13 Lethbridge

“Conservative voters who expected Mr. Harper to govern without raising taxes, increasing spending or making life harder for investors, retired people or families are asking to be heard,” Turner says. “In each of the communities I am visiting, grassroots organizers have come together to stage these meetings. I’m eager to hear the people, and bring their voices to Ottawa, where they’ve been all but lost.”

Posted by: Akin gets the scoop at August 21, 2007 03:52 PM

---

Doesn't the change to the Income Trusts start in 2011. Why all the panic now. These investors had several years to move their money. Who decided to get out now, I don't recall the announcement saying everyone had to liquidate now. And, if the investors lost all that money, how can they pay for this tour, or have funds to donate to liberals.
I think garth might be getting ready to take over talibanjacks job.

Posted by: Mary T at August 21, 2007 04:10 PM

---

Garth says "I have saved up the travel points all MPs are given - a few of those are being used for my flights. In all cities, volunteers are picking me up and driving me around. Local groups who have arranged public meetings are renting and paying for the halls themselves. Most of my hotel rooms have been donated by supporters."

This does not let you off the hook at all, Garth. It is an admission that public funds are used for your flights, period. I don't care if you bicycle to Halton; your argument is spurious.

These "volunteers" and "local groups" and "supporters" you speak of wouldn't be associated with greedy income trust special interest groups, looking to further burden working Canadians with taxes, would they?

BTW great post, Steve.

Posted by: Cdn at August 21, 2007 04:15 PM

---

Oh my God, I can't believe people are making such a great big ado about nothing.

There have been conservatives running all over the place too - oh, but that's okay, uh, huh.

I fail to see what the big deal is here.

Posted by: Sara at August 21, 2007 04:21 PM

---

This would be the perfect opportunity to:

1) highlight Garth's flip flops; all the things he used to support which he now opposes

2) a Conservative tour of Halton

Posted by: Cool Blue at August 21, 2007 04:25 PM

---

A comment on my blog, if you care for an eyewitness account:
"I was at the town hall meeting last night in Burlington and I didn’t hear Garth shout anyone down. There was an 84 year old war vet there and he was given the floor for as long as he wanted to talk, and Garth listened patiently to what he had to say.
The only rudeness I perceived was from a few young men in the back row who appeared to be trying to egg Garth on. I later found out that they were Conservative party members.
I can understand why Conservative constituents might be upset that Garth is now a Liberal, but if they want to attack him in order to enhance their Conservative platform, they should do so as self-identified Conservatives so that the public can understand where they’re coming from.
And they should speak the truth - otherwise they’re not doing their party any good. And Garth didn’t refuse to disclose where the money for his trip is coming from. They completely made that up. His account of the event is true.

By JR on 08.21.07 4:23 pm e
"

Posted by: Garth Turner at August 21, 2007 05:04 PM

---

As a small-c conservative I find Garth Turner's partisan bias and personal attacks a big turn off. I doubt that this 'speaking tour' is going to amount to much at all. In fact, I'll bet that the only people showing up will be Liberal party members or Liberal voters.

I remember supporting Garth when he criticized Harper for 'seducing' Emerson and appointing Fortier. His criticisms were correct in my opinion. But his personal attacks on his political opponents and those with different viewpoints angered me greatly. His 'conversion' to the Liberals was made without concern for the viewpoints of his constituents (who in all his 'polls' told him he shouldn't), making it clear that he was and is a hypocrite. And his vendetta against Harper and the Tories is childish and immature.

Garth's attacks on Harper are hyperbole and exaggerated. While some investors have taken a hit with the income trust tax, it seems to me as a lay person that it had to be done. Indeed many financial analysts said so, and I'm going to believe them. Families, students and retired people have seen their taxes decreased in the form of income splitting, tax credits, and tax exemptions. Inflation is hardly Harper's fault, nor is it a significant issue at all! I don't see a massive Harper-induced inflation crisis going on.

And does Garth Turner really believe that the Liberals will behave more conservative than the Tories? I think not. And most small-c conservatives are going to see that as well. Harper's failures as a 'conservative' are not significant enough to make me willing to vote for Dion, whom I know will make little effort to even pretend to be 'conservative'.

Posted by: southernontarioan at August 21, 2007 05:05 PM

---

Gosh, here's another one:

"I was at the meeting last night and I could tell right from the start that these three “gentlemen” were out to act as “agents provocateurs” or “inciting agents” by the way they placed themselves at the back of the room with smirks on their faces and folded their arms like kids about to play a prank on a teacher.

Here are my comments on this marked by brackets.

“I am writing you today because I was at a Garth Turner townhall meeting last night… His worst action

[Spinning and ranking everything at Garth’s townhall meeting as a degree of negative is an interesting bias!]

last night was while an 84 year old veteran was talking about a) what a great job our armed forces are doing in Afghanistan,

[When I myself made a comment that it was too bad that other NATO forces did not seem to be doing more or at least as much live combat operaions in Afghanistan and Canada seems to be doing the most of any NATO country in Afghanistan, this veteran said that I shouldn’t believe everything I read in the media about this and that German news media probably say that German forces were doing all the work.]

and B) how it is patently false that the Government is doing anything but completely honoring its veterans, Mr Turner decided to shout him down

[This veteran was answering another person in the audience who said that veterans weren’t treated well enough in Canada, it wasn’t a debate with Garth. In answer, the veteran gave several examples of how well he was treated by Canada as a veteran. For example: being able to obtain medical treatment in any hospital when traveling in the US and the Canadian government would foot the bill; how he was called on the telephone and asked if he was still alive by Veterans Affairs, since he hadn’t contacted them for 23 years; how he received a home visit after this call, and was told that he could have steps in his bath tub installed for free and receive a free walker. Garth did not shout this veteran down, as a matter of fact, Garth listened and allowed this gentleman to talk as long as he wanted to, bless this gentlemen, as he was talking a lot until this veteran himself realized and said himself that other people wanted to make comments and ask questions.]

and try to move on to other people discussing Afghanistan, who happened to be a crazy 9/11 denier, but Garth let her speak freely.

[Garth let everyone speak freely. So Garth should have automatically prevented this lady from talking?]

Im also appalled that when I asked about who is paying for his cross Canada junket, and how this helps Haltonians, he got extraordinarily upset that I would ask such a question,

[As Garth was answering the several multi-part questions posed to him by this blogger that anyone would have difficulty breaking down into less than 15 points, he repeatedly interrupted Garth. After he told this blogger that he would essentially try to answer all of his questions, if he let him speak, a librarian told us that we would have to leave the room as the library was closed as it was a few minutes to 9pm, the meeting would have to end. Garth did not get extraordinarily upset.]

refused to disclose the source of the funds, and said as an MP he can go “wherever the hell he wants”.

[Garth didn’t get to the disclosure of funds answer as the meeting had to end. MPs are under strict rules as to how they utilize funds, so it was a provocative question. My reaction would be the same if some kids at the back of my meeting told me that I shouldn’t be traveling outside of my home city.]

His executive assistant also scoffed many times during my question.”

[Esther probably scoffed because Garth maintained remarkable constraint with these kids in RUSH t-shirts.]

By Geoffrey L. on 08.21.07 4:38 pm e"

Posted by: Garth Turner at August 21, 2007 05:06 PM

---

Wow, another one:

"I must have been at a different meeting, because I didn’t see or hear any of the allegations. What I did see last evening was three troublemakers at work trying to embarrass a dedicated politician.
Garth Turner has solved a dilemma for me. Since the Income Trust debacle, I can no longer vote Conservative. And I really don’t think Canada needs yet another Prime Minister from Quebec. So I won’t vote for a party at the next election - I’ll vote for the individual

By Terry Culnane on 08.21.07 5:35 pm e"

Posted by: Garth Turner at August 21, 2007 05:09 PM

---

Thanks for clearing all that up Garth. And say "Hi" to Esther for me!

Posted by: Steve Janke at August 21, 2007 05:11 PM

---

Holy smokes, and another:

"I was at that meeting of Aug 20. What a fabrication and misrepresentation of events.
Garth did not shout down a Veteran, in fact let him say his piece and then got on with answering questions. On the issue of funds, Garth did say he would disclose them. I was within observation of Garth’s assistant and she certainly did no scoffing to my knowledge.
I am not surprised that young Conservatives do this sort of thing since that has been my lifelong experience with the Conservative party. The only person that I and my family were ever threatened by was the party whip { Jack Ellis } back in the 70’s. The tone and tactics of the Conservative party has not changed in 40 years and I come to expect this sort of thing from them.
I have lived with more MP’s than most people and have to hand it to Garth as the hardest working one that I have ever experienced.

By Monte Dennis on 08.21.07 5:55 pm e"

Posted by: Garth Turner at August 21, 2007 05:20 PM

---

Steve, Mr. Credibility. Thanks for checking your sources.

Garth

Posted by: Garth Turner at August 21, 2007 05:22 PM

---

I have so many sources that sometimes it's hard to keep track. So much information passing in front of me. I need a staff to help keep track, but then it's so hard to find people that you can truly trust with sensitive information. I bet that's a problem you have as a politician and an MP, eh Garth? I try my best, but it's a one-man band here.

Posted by: Steve Janke at August 21, 2007 05:27 PM

---

Is this the same Garth Turner that wants to shift the tax burden from rich investors to working Canadians?

Posted by: Average Joe at August 21, 2007 05:33 PM

---

I could no longer stand Garth and his pathetic rants on his blog so I no longer go there.Nice to see Jackie Chan and Bill From Muskoka are using other user id's now.Jackie is especially fond of throwing around the Nazi reference to anyone who dares question Garth.

And while Garth is popping in here, just wondering Garth if you will resign and run in a by-election in the fall? I remember seeing you stand up in the HOC and make that offer,and as I understand it, the government is now willing to do that as the same time as the other Ontario by-elections.

Posted by: Garth Sucks at August 21, 2007 05:49 PM

---

Yep...it is.

Posted by: You betcha at August 21, 2007 05:53 PM

---

Janke hoisted by his own petard.

Once again!!!!!

Do you ever fact check anything?

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Posted by: Frank Frink at August 21, 2007 06:02 PM

---

What kind of political junkie would go listen to Garth? I don't think many people in Western Canada could pick him out of a police line up. Come to think of it I doubt many would know where Halton is located. Doncha just love HUBRIS.

Posted by: joe at August 21, 2007 06:06 PM

---

Some of the people who made those comments on garths blog are liberal party members...

Posted by: Must be libs at August 21, 2007 06:21 PM

---

"Do you ever fact check anything?"

Ask Ted,Steve produced the facts,Ted(cerberus) disputed them, and the next day Michael Bryant comes out and indeed verifies Jankes facts.

As I understand it,an Amber Alert will be issued for Ted,who seems to have disappeared.

Posted by: Garth Sucks at August 21, 2007 06:28 PM

---

He CANT send his MPTV guy to Milton (not Toronto as he states) to tape a town hall but can send his MPTV lackies up to help protest in Quebec. HMMM.

Posted by: But isnt it funny at August 21, 2007 06:29 PM

---

*Can ANYONE out here understand what hes talking about?*

One Of the blogers sent me an e-mail to-day. Asking me as a member of the EDA for an answer too this question.This was my reply!You want an answer. How’s this!
You have invaded my private e-mail account. Something I do not like!
If there is any more unwanted E-mail from you or any other persons I will react
in a very unpleasant way. Mark Johnston was your sousce. So I have a starting
point.
Mr. Turner and his staff are some of the hardest working people I know.
Every thing Mr. Turner does Is under the strictest rules of parliamentary law.
If you want answers, I’m sure there’s a proper chanel too follow. Asking
honest EDA members is not!
Remember Mr. Turner and his staff work for and represents all the voters of
Halton not just Liberals. And that is just one of the reasons I suport him.
So close your loop, the right way, and do not, repeat, do not use this e-mail
address for your political rederic again! Unless you want too purches a
Liberal membership.

By CHARLIE on 08.21.07 5:52 pm

Posted by: Another poster from Garth.ca at August 21, 2007 06:48 PM

---

As if to prove my point...

"Steve, Mr. Credibility. Thanks for checking your sources."

Garth's sarcastic response reeks of pettiness. He could have made the same point without the sarcastic jabs, but he couldn't resist it seems. (unless I'm totally misreading those sentences - in which case I apologize)

And Garth does have a good point. Steve should probably double check his sources before he posts it online. Although Steve did caution readers in his original post that it was only one person's perspective and invited a correction to be made. Still, Garth's jab at Steve was unnecessary and childish.

It may be unfair, but I have higher standards for an MP than I do for bloggers. Although, Garth Turner is a politician, just like every other one on Parliament Hill. No better, and perhaps no worse neither.

Posted by: southernontarioan at August 21, 2007 07:05 PM

---

Check our the Canadian Action Party, all true PCers not the phony ones that are in Ottawa.

Posted by: Jacko at August 21, 2007 07:41 PM

---

Garth I'm going to make a point of being at the Red Deer stop. I would like you to tell me how Income Trust Investors lost Billions on dollars.

Posted by: rod at August 21, 2007 07:50 PM

---

Those "quotes" are very amusing Garth.

Unfortunately, considering that you, Esther and a number of you personal supporters masquerade as average people posting on your blog I don't put a whole lot of stock in them.

Posted by: Jilted in Halton at August 21, 2007 07:52 PM

---

"The answer I gave at the meeting was concise: No taxpayer funds are being dedicated to this trip. Not a cent. Because I drive to Ottawa from my constituency (I pay my own gas, and collect no mileage money), I have saved up the travel points all MPs are given - a few of those are being used for my flights."

It kind of sounds like Garth feels "entitled to his entitlements".

Posted by: Paul M at August 21, 2007 08:30 PM

---

Oh my, a national speaking tour no less. I can already picture a chorus line in the theme song "we stand on Garth for thee"

Posted by: at August 21, 2007 08:43 PM

---

"Mark Johnston was your source."

No he wasn't. I don't have a source. I was handed the email list by on of your own senior staff. Just like that. It was no big deal. You might want to have a talk with your people about the importance of data security, though.

Posted by: Steve Janke at August 21, 2007 08:47 PM

---

Oh my, a National speaking tour no less. I can already picture a chorus line in the theme song " We stand on Garth for thee"

Posted by: Billy at August 21, 2007 08:48 PM

---

When Garth was trying to be the savior of parliament, I respected what he was attempting to do. Parliament as Garth demonstrates with his arrogance and pompous attitude is disfunctional.

Garth is the worst of what Parliament has become in my opinion.

He is a boring backbencher with a "look at me -- NOW" attitude.

Lonely man.

Arnold

Posted by: Arnold at August 21, 2007 09:00 PM

---

We have a number of monkeymouths in Canada now. Leading the band of monkeymouths is Danny Williams of Newfoundland, Stephane, Frenchie, Dion, Jack the used car salesman, Layton and now Garth, the turncoat, Turner. Why anyone would want to attend Liberal Garth Turner's town halls is beyond me. Garth has turned into a one man show. He will be preaching from the old Liberal hymn book which is so tedious it not worth listening to anymore.

Posted by: HLH at August 21, 2007 09:28 PM

---

Vis a vis a comment above: "Do you [Steve] ever fact check anything?"

This post and the comments on it are a fact check. Steve asked others who were at the meeting to verify if what his source alleged was true.

Like others, however, I'm not convinced by Garth Turner's "evidence" that what Steve's source said is not true. They posted at Garth's site, and anyone can use any name they want...

In the meantime, it seems to me that the Laddy doth protest too much. BTW, who is paying for this Western wamble, Mr. Turner?

Posted by: 'been around the block at August 21, 2007 09:36 PM

---

Oh my God, I can't believe people are making such a great big ado about nothing.

There have been conservatives running all over the place too - oh, but that's okay, uh, huh.

I fail to see what the big deal is here.

Posted by: Sara at August 21, 2007 04:21 PM

The fact that Sara has posted this tells me that she thinks Garth is pushing the Income Splitting idea on his tour.

Posted by: Marg at August 21, 2007 10:07 PM

---

Frankly, I'm surprised at the interest myself. Personally, I think Garth Turner ought to publish in detail how he pulls off this tour without spending any taxpayer cash. Obviously not every politician could do it, but I bet we could all learn from this.

Posted by: Steve Janke at August 21, 2007 10:34 PM

---

Now, finally now, the Liberals will see what a headache Garth was for the Conservatives.

The best and funniest part is that Garth actually thinks he may have a shot at the Liberal leadership once Dion is shuffled aside.

Posted by: Dave Tenaglia at August 21, 2007 10:37 PM

---

After a quick review of the thread and Mr Janke's commentary (and Garth's so-called rebuttal with the assistance of liberal partisan chorus) its clear teh one question has not been answered.
Garth I feel quite confident that you or one of your partisans are monitoring this site, so here's the question again, real simple so a real simple answer is what you respond with.

Is the liberal party paying for this trip?

Posted by: gimbol at August 22, 2007 06:11 AM

---

A loose cannon would be the last person anyone would want doing a promo tour, in this case, it's a great idea.

Dion is already goofing up with his conspiracy theories, trying to get going with a new Conservative "hidden agenda" subject, the old ones didn't pan out.

Garth should do a good job of insuring the Conservatives get a Majority next time. Hope he's saved enough "air miles" and travels across the country.
This is an example of a former Conservative still working for the Conservatives under the Liberal banner.

Go Garth, go!

Posted by: Libby at August 22, 2007 06:58 AM

---

All the fuss and bother exhibited by Janke and his sock puppets over a rather inconsequential trip by a Liberal back bencher has just a hint of panic in the CPC ranks.

Posted by: da prince at August 22, 2007 07:05 AM

---

I'll say it as nicely as I can, da prince: Please stuff it.

It's the accumulation of the Liberal shenanigans that rankles. Liberal corruption has always left the Canadian taxpayer much the poorer as our individual coffers became near empty while the Liberals simply tax grabbed and, literally, stole our money in order to continue to fill their endlessly deep pockets and those of their cronies.

No desperation here: 'just another attempt to understand the Liberal mind and how it alwasys seems to hit the road with our hard-earned cash.

I'm with gimbol. 'Same question I asked earlier: Who exactly is paying for this Western Wamble? Is it the Liberal Party or not?

Posted by: 'been around the block at August 22, 2007 07:22 AM

---

BTW, I'm no sock puppet.

Posted by: 'been around the block at August 22, 2007 07:26 AM

---

You, "da prince", don't seem to realize Garth is da king in his own mind, he's running on ego.
He does stir controversy wherever he goes, even at town hall meetings. Just representing himself is one big load, never mind the Liberals or whatever party he uses as a tool.

Nice try "da prince", he's no ordinary backbencher, he's an attention seeker first and foremost.

Is it that the people in Halton have had enough of his bullshit so he's taking a break from the heat of hell's kitchen?

Posted by: Libby at August 22, 2007 07:41 AM

---

"while the Liberals simply tax grabbed and, literally, stole our money in order to continue to fill their endlessly deep pockets" - been

Guess you didn't hear about Harpliar's 31.5% tax grab from Canadians RRSP income trust holdings? Makes anything the Libs did look penny ante.

Posted by: da prince at August 22, 2007 07:44 AM

---

This tour seems like a great way to shore up the conservative vote in the West... Garth is kinda like a real-life walking 'just say no' public service anouncement and it wont cost the Conservatives a cent!

Posted by: K at August 22, 2007 08:06 AM

---

I left the following comment at Garth's blog; notice the complete lack of respect this Liberal MP shows to anyone who voices the slightest objection to his party's socialist agenda:

*******************************

As a working Canadian I object to you and the greedy, nonworking income trust investors lobbying to shift the tax burden onto working Canadians, which is what this tour is all about.

Your party’s Pink Book supports spending 1% GDP annually on a new state run institutionalized daycare scheme. That’s fifteen billion dollars, Garth! Not to mention the rumblings of pharmacare we hear will be in the next Liberal platform.

You have no claim to fiscal conservatism as long as you are a member of an outright socialist party hell bent on introducing new, costly social programs.

*******************************

Garth's classy response to a hardworking taxpayer?

"Before you foam too much, come to a meeting. I think getting out would help you. — Garth"

Posted by: Ottawan at August 22, 2007 08:12 AM

---

Why does "da prince" seem to post here, for the most part, only when Garth is the topic?

Could it be because it is really Esther or one of his other lapdogs?

Posted by: Gary at August 22, 2007 08:19 AM

---

As far as Prime Minister Stephen Harper's reforming RRSP income trust holdings: All of the financial experts in Canada admitted that the Liberals should have done the same thing and much earlier, as this tax loophole put an unfair tax burden on the rest of Candadians who didn't benefit from RRSP income trust holdings.

The usual same-old, same-old with the Liberals, no guts to do the right thing, just get re-elected no matter what, and leave it to the CPC and our present PM to clean up the mess they've created.

'You da prince of what? Misinformation?

Posted by: 'been around the block at August 22, 2007 08:34 AM

---

Income Trust is a dead issue, anyone with a brain knows it had to be dealt with.
We hear the roars from those who were benefiting most from this outrageous loophole. Seems to me the five year period is a good amount of time to reinvest.
It's pure cheap politics by desperate, gutless, Liberals.

Posted by: Libby at August 22, 2007 08:51 AM

---

"and leave it to the CPC and our present PM to clean up the mess they've created." - been

A Conservative government "will preserve income trusts by not imposing any new taxes on them" - Stephen J Harpliar, CPC campaign pledge.

"nonworking income trust investors lobbying to shift the tax burden onto working Canadians," - Ottawan

If by "nonworking" you mean retirees then you are partially right. "shift the tax" I don't think so, taxes are already being paid on RSP withdrawls often at rates higher than the effective corporation tax. Harpliar's new tax means RSP trust income will now be double taxed.

Unlike politicians, civil servants and employees of crown and large corporations most Canadians do no have defined benefit pension plans and rely on their RSPs for retirement. Hardly the nonworking rich. I guess Ottawan falls into the civil service category and as such has no need for the income generated by Trusts. The rest of us aren't quite so privileged.

Posted by: da prince at August 22, 2007 08:59 AM

---

Hey, da prince. 'You listening?

'Don't think so. Financial experts, sensible Liberals, and others have admitted--got it? admitted--that the RRSP loophole should have been closed a long time ago. So, Chretien and Martin refused to take this advice...and PM Stephen Harper decided it needed to be done.

He did it. And the proof that it's a principled act (something the Liberal Party have been strangers to in the past 30 years) is that it might well damage the CPC--in fact, it has.

'Big difference between the CPC closing this tax loophole, which benefitted only those who could afford RRSPs (lots of Canadians don't have any, and are having trouble making ends meet because we're taxed so highly), and the Libs' leaving stashes of cash in unmarked brown envelopes in Italian restaurants.

Under any circumstances, cash-stuffed unmarked envelopes left in Italian restaurants are suspect. But given that the cash was stolen from hard-working Canadian citizens and we're looking at criminal acts not just suspect ones.

Deal with that, da prince, and then maybe you'll get it.

(On the other hand, it seems to be a Liberal disease, this phenonmenon of not getting it. The Librano$ just can't seem to understand that Canadians don't like being ripped off by their government "leaders" who seem to think that they and their friends are entitled to our hard-earned wages for their pleasure and pet projects. It's pretty simple really...what's not to get?)

Posted by: 'been around the block at August 22, 2007 09:29 AM

---

"He did it. And the proof that it's a principled act" - been. Was it a principled act to lie to Canadians during the campaign? If it was an "RRSP loophole" after the election it must have been so before. Oh, right Harper had to get elected.

I'm not sure what "financial experts" you are referring to. There was plenty of testimony at the Commons committee hearings that trusts did not cause 'tax leakage' as alleged by Flaherty in his famous 18 page blacked out justification. What is causing real tax leakage though is the takeover of trusts by US private equity, a direct result of Harpliar's misguided 'Fair Tax Policy'. Fair for whom, US buyers and the IRS?

For something which is supposed to be a 'dead issue' you CPCers still can get awfully worked up. The issue is gaining traction and will only more so as the 2011 tax implementation approaches. Harpliar missed his chance in the Spring.

Posted by: da prince at August 22, 2007 10:25 AM

---

And how will this benefit Halton residents?

http://www.northumberlandtoday.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=657574&catname=Local%20News&classif=
Turner to address local Liberals

MacDonald, Valerie
Local News - Friday, August 17, 2007 @ 09:00

Halton Riding Liberal MP, author, broadcaster/columnist and Privy Council member Garth Turner will be the speaker at the Northumberland-Quinte West Federal Liberal Association annual dinner on August 22.

Mr. Turner was first elected to Parliament in 1988 and served until 1993. He returned as an MP in the January 2006 election.

The former Conservative Party member was suspended from the caucus in October 2006, and joined the Liberal Party in February of this year as a member of the Liberal caucus.

Posted by: The Tour has started already at August 22, 2007 10:29 AM

---

Why does "da prince" seem to post here, for the most part, only when Garth is the topic?

Could it be because it is really Esther or one of his other lapdogs?

Posted by: Gary at August 22, 2007 08:19 AM

Well we know its not "Charlie" seeing how daprinces posts are NOT filled with grammar errors, spelling mistakes and its somewhat easy to follow.

Posted by: Makes you wonder at August 22, 2007 10:32 AM

---

It seems to me that more people are posting on Garth's blog who are claiming that nothing happened than showed up to his town hall.

Posted by: Gary at August 22, 2007 10:42 AM

---

Does anyone have any information (God knows Ive tried to find out) what exactly Garth did while he sat in the office of the Minister of National Revenue.

I know that after the leadership convention where Kim Campbell won and therefore became Prime Minister he appointed him to cabinet (Wikipage said June 25, 1993) According to another Wiki page, she called the election on September 8th, 1993 after returning from the summer BBQ circuit.

where of course no legislation is put through. It would be interesting to see what the great Garth Turner did with his time to earn the title "Honourable" Given he was sworn in on June 25th and election was called September 8th (75 days in total) what did he accomplish? Redecorated the office? Did he even get a chance to try out the ol' cabinet member only limo? What legislation did he introduce and what changes did he make? Other than changing his business cards to include the word Honourable?

Posted by: What exactly did he do at August 22, 2007 10:49 AM

---

Hey Steve,do you have access to the ip address for Garth and da prince?Is it traceable?

Posted by: paulsstuff at August 22, 2007 11:06 AM

---

The Turner "tour": has nothing to do with Halton's best interests or the interests of Garth's new found Librano party....this is an exercise where the backwoods demigod gets a 5 ton truck to haul his ego around the nation for display... where he engages in self-indulgent verbose masturbation in public....if you go to one of these, wear a rain coat because Garth's ego has been backed up for a while and he needs the release.

Posted by: WL Mackenzie Redux at August 22, 2007 11:09 AM

---

"Hey Steve,do you have access to the ip address for Garth and da prince?"

I hope he does to prove to you delusional, paranoid CPCers that we are not the same.

Posted by: da prince at August 22, 2007 12:17 PM

---

So Garth is using MP travel points to move around on his junket and "local groups" are renting the halls and hotel rooms are "donated". OK.

Some questions:
Who are these local groups?
Who is donating the hotel rooms (is it the hotel or is someone or some group paying for the rooms)?
As ITs seem to _still_ be the topic du jour at these things, is CAITI (the anti IT tax lobby group) somehow involved? (Is CAITI a registered lobby group?)
Are these donations and hall rentals registered as such (i.e. Lib party donations) since they're not coming out of the Lib coffers?

I think those are the questions to start digging into.

Outside of his riding and various bloggers, I would think (although I could be mistaken) that mostly only the CAITI people would really have any idea who he is (other than some Ex-CPC that was given the boot) and thus donate. The above folks and some Liberals would be the folks that would likely attend.

Posted by: H D at August 22, 2007 12:20 PM

---

"Who are these local groups?"

Whiny Income Trust moochbags looking for a handout is my guess.

"Who is donating the hotel rooms?"

Whiny Income Trust moochbags looking for a handout is my guess.

I fail to see how this is different from any lobby group handing a brown envelope full of cash to an MP in return for services rendered. And I'm quite sure the Criminal Code of Canada prohibits such behavior.

This stinks to high heaven and I hope you keep your foot firmly on Garth's neck, Steve.

Posted by: William G at August 22, 2007 01:30 PM

---

" It seems to me that more people are posting on Garth's blog who are claiming that nothing happened than showed up to his town hall."

Gary, you haven't taken into account the posters with multiple personalities.

Posted by: muttsrus at August 22, 2007 01:32 PM

---

Maybe I'm wrong but don't MP's of all stripes have to divulge all costs, donations and from whom?
Even if he's running around giving his expert advice on Income Trusts etc. he's still an MP.

Posted by: Libby at August 22, 2007 02:52 PM

---

"Hey Steve,do you have access to the ip address for Garth and da prince?"

I hope he does to prove to you delusional, paranoid CPCers that we are not the same."

Actually moron,Garth has posted ip addresses on his blog trying to show a connection between posters disagreeing with him.Either that or it's the little voices in the back of his head making him paranoid.

Now run along and enjoy your beer and popcorn.

Posted by: paulsstuff at August 22, 2007 05:13 PM

---

http://youtube.com/watch?v=19ni70g6t3I

Garth Turner asking for a byelection in Halton...the only thing he had to do was resign. "I will lay my seat on the line"

He has now said hes not going anywhere...even if the PM assured him of a date.

Shouldve taken him up on that offer when they had the chance.

Posted by: remember this? at August 22, 2007 11:35 PM

---

Hey people .. Can't you see this tour for what it is?

Dion is unleashing Garth out West to rally the old PC voters to the Liberal party come the next election.

Next election? November-December this year because Dion is threatening to vote non-confidence if the Liberal Kyoto bill is killed, and now Duceppe is saying he will vote non-confidence because Van Doos are dying in Afghanistan.

Election coming this year folks and you can bet on it, otherwise why would Halton MP Garth be hauling his ass out West?

Posted by: Observer at August 23, 2007 11:17 PM

---

On all the other posts since this one that Angry's done "da prince" has not said a thing. Only when Garth is talked about is da prince seen here.

Hmmm...who could it be I wonder?

Posted by: Paul M at August 24, 2007 08:53 PM

---

On the IT fiasco - I am a Conservative voter in Harper's riding. The decision on trusts benefitted GOVERNMENT employees & private sector (usually union) pensioners, (that's cops, teachers, street sweepers, you name 'em you know who they are) not those who have only CPP & RRSP's. I am not a fan of double taxation of dividends or in this case income distributions on trusts, that is what the fuss is about. The government wanted their cut opf the action before you got to enjoy the fruits of your investing, overlooking the fact that tax-deferred income inside an RRSP will taxed at the highest marginal rates when you withdraw. Do you actually think that when boomers retire tax rates will be LOWER when you withdraw? Dream on. These crooks control the tax rules, so don't plan on any comfortable retirement from the private sector, you are on the hook for government employees' retirement FIRST! I also don't like lying politiicans who take money from me to pay themselves a self administered salary and golden pension benfits that I as a taxpayer am on the hook for until I die and do not receive any benefit of. This decision did nothing for me, it didn't reduce my taxes, it increased them, it reduced my choice of investment vehicles and my future retirement returns. In my view these SOB's taxed my future to benefit themselves. What's next, taxing income INSIDE RRSP's? Screw the whole lot of Libs, Cons, Dip or Greens, they are all crooks. Garth is just one of many slippery con artists dressed up as a "politician" out to benefit himself and followers with your money. The money raked in by the FEDs from income trusts was more than they will rake in as a "normal" business and the decision drove prices down making these businesses CHEAP so that non-taxpaying pension funds (think Ontario teachers and OMERS) get to buy up well run and efficient businesses at fire sale prices, further benfitting these pension recipients at your expense. Western Conservative voters were played for suckers by Harper and I can assure you that his Toronto roots are showing. Garth is just another in a long line of central Canadian shysters we have had to deal with from that part of the country. Teach your kids to lie, cheat and steal, on everything, 'cause that is how you get ahead in this country. The likes of Harper, Martin, Chretien, Bull-Roney and low-life like Garth are your role models. I changed my habits too, I now lie cheat and steal and guess what, it works.

Posted by: joe taxpayer at August 29, 2007 12:30 PM

---