Elton John's dream of a religion-free earthly paradise
Elton John expressed his desire to see all organized religion banned, musings quite widely reported. At the time I wanted to criticize his dangerous words, but I decided to wait, because I wanted to hear the reaction of the gay community. The reaction is...varied.
If Elton John had his way, organized religion would be banned:
Organized religion fuels anti-gay discrimination and should be eliminated, pop star Elton John said in an interview published Saturday.
"I think religion has always tried to turn hatred toward gay people," the musician, who is openly gay, said in the Observer newspaper's Music Monthly magazine. "Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays."
"From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."
I suppose if Elton John ran the world, we would have some sort secret police checking on people, observing them for signs of metaphysical musings. If they are caught answering the questions posed by other people also wondering about what the nature of reality is, then they could yanked off the street and driven off to some sort of re-education camp.
Organized religions have evolved all over the planet, and new religions continue to spring up, suggesting that humans have evolved to seek out the Truth, whatever that is, in coordination with others. Elton John's ban would require a pretty brutal and pervasive counter-organization. Of course, it's not like there haven't been other organizations dedicated, at least in part, in making Elton John's paradise on earth a reality, a place where organized religions don't exist. I think of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or the Khmer Rouge of Democratic Kampuchea:Article 20 of the 1976 Constitution of Democratic Kampuchea guaranteed religious freedom, but it also declared that "all reactionary religions that are detrimental to Democratic Kampuchea and the Kampuchean People are strictly forbidden." About 85 percent of the population follows the Theravada school of Buddhism. The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks, regarded by the regime as social parasites, were defrocked and forced into labor brigades. Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails. Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying or expressing religious sentiments were often killed. The Christian and Muslim communities also were even more persecuted, as they were labelled as part of a pro-Western cosmopolitan sphere, hindering Cambodian culture and society. The Roman Catholic cathedral of Phnom Penh was completely razed. The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they regard as an abomination (haram). Many of those who refused were killed. Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed.
I'm not saying Elton John wishes for this to happen. Well, maybe he does, or more likely, he just hasn't thought it through. His thought processes probably last for 3 minutes or less -- the time it takes to sing a song.
Elton John's thinking (such as it is) is part of the mainstream of homosexual thinking:
The Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association (GALHA) has backed comments from Sir Elton John after he claimed that religion promotes the hatred of gays.
Commenting on Sir Elton's remarks, GALHA's secretary George Broadhead said there is some truth behind them, "It should be quite clear to anyone that these days most hostility to gay relationships and gay rights comes from religious sources, notably Evangelical Anglicans, Christian pressure groups like the Christian Institute, the Vatican, and Islamic organisations.
“Hardly a day passes without some anti-gay proclamations, fatwa or edict being issued by one religious leader or another. Religionists are campaigning against our human rights, peddling their bigotry, telling us we're sick, diseased, perverted and destined for hell-fire, or promoting quack therapies to 'cure' us."
Broadhead's only criticism is that the ban would probably fail:
However, he said Sir Elton's suggestion that religion be banned is unworkable, “Any attempt to ban it would simply make it stronger and more determined.
"The right approach is to argue and debate and try to convince religious believers that they are wrong when it comes to gays. But while we believe that all of them - the pastors, the Pope and the imams - are entitled to express their views, they should not be permitted by law to impose them on others, which is what they are trying to do at present,” he said.
Nice of Broadhead not to argue for Elton John's "complete ban" with all that entails. On the other hand, he seems to think the problem is that it isn't very practical.
Not a student of history, this Broadhead.
Meanwhile, there are "lemmings" within the homosexual community too:
Elton John's bitter rant at how organised religion promotes hatred of homosexuals has upset a pro-gay church group.
But his outburst has saddened Reverend Giles Fraser from the Inclusive Church, a pro-gay group in the Church of England, who believes the singer's comments are a popular 'misconception' in the gay community.
"I'm sad because it deepens the perception that the church is intrinsically homophobic," said Fraser. "I don't believe it is homophobic, I believe that's a mistaken interpretation. And (Elton John's comments) don't help those struggling to change that perception."
At least these lemmings are halfway educated by Elton John's standards. Presumably Fraser and his kind would not have to spend too much time in Elton John's "love camps".
Strange that no one in the gay community has pointed out the obvious problems with enforcing Elton John's ban. It's not like it hasn't been tried before, always with the same results.
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Comments
Interesting post. My degree is Religious Studies, with Political Science Minor - so I have often considered the things I think he is trying to express (and to be honest you could replace "gays" with "jews" or "blacks" or "women" and we would all recognize we have heard this argument before.
"Religion promotes the hatred and spite..."
Yes it does. Religion is a societal control and often that works best when your particular society believes it is better (sorry, singularily blessed by god) than another. Politics is religion is politics, imh(academic)o. We certainly can't have a world-wide peace with our current religious structures - but perhaps we were never meant too.
Posted by: Allie Wojtaszek at November 18, 2006 12:29 PM
It's interesting that when you point fingers, you allways have more pointing back at you (as we learned as children). We have been told to put the offenders words in our own sentence(so i did).
Organized gay movements fuels anti-religious discrimination and should be eliminated, --- ---- ----- ---- said in an interview published Saturday.
"I think the gay movement has always tried to turn hatred toward religious people," the --------, who is openly gay, said in the -------- newspaper's ----- Monthly magazine. "The gay movement promotes the hatred and spite against religion."
"From my point of view, I would ban "the gay movement completely. Organized gay movement doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate."
Posted by: Cal at November 18, 2006 02:14 PM
Touche, cal. I was thinking the same thing myself. Thanks for putting it in writing.
Elton John is a horses a**. He's a privileged, entitled, idiot. If he did his homework, he'd find that "organized religion" does more good than any other volunteer organization in the world. Who's the first at a scene of a natural disaster, anywhere in the world? Government NGOs, the UN, the army? Nope. It's "organized religion" (always perferable to unorganized religion), the local churches first and then the aid that their churches in other parts of the world mobilize and send. This help comes quickly and with very little overhead, because it's mostly done by committed and caring volunteers.
But what would SIR Elton the Idiot John know about that? He's too busy living in palatial splendour (extremely tacky, IMHO), lavishly entertaining himself and his friends, or jetting around the world in his luxurious private plane to his next supersize, super-extravagent holiday destination.
I'm super tired of entitled, know-nothing super stars spouting drivel. I used to like Elton John (one of my favourite songs is "Your Song," and I love him and KiKi Dee singing "Don't Go Breaking My Heart"); I even used to like his outlandish get-ups: What's he going to be wearing NEXT? But not anymore.
He's as bigoted as any "religious" person he accuses of bigotry. And he's got a large audience who listen to him. Not me. Not anymore.
Go away, Elton. Go do your homework, Elton.
Posted by: 'been around the block at November 18, 2006 03:28 PM
Ya EJ said something. First is anyone really listening to him? And secondly, that guy is so far removed from reality, who cares what he/she has to say.
Posted by: missing link at November 18, 2006 04:53 PM
John Lennon already said this rather blasé statement years ago...
"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky"
"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace "
Posted by: Adrian MacNair at November 18, 2006 04:58 PM
Elton John should just shut up and sing!
It's a given, the homosexual lifestyle is against the tenets of the main religions of the world.
It appears the militants in the homosexual community are intent on changing those tenets.
Posted by: Biddy at November 18, 2006 06:04 PM
Elton John's and John Lennon's dream of a religion-free earthly paradise, if realized, would fast become a nightmare.
Exit organized religion and all of the unsung (sorry for the bad pun) and unseen volunteer labour on behalf of those in genuine need in our communities, and Sir Elton would be putting double bars on his windows and triple strands of barbed wire on the walls around his mansion--or maybe be having to triple the number of security guards around his palatial pile.
Biddy, you're absolutely right. The gay agenda is not about equality but about "the militants in the homosexual community [being] intent on changing those tenets [of the main religions of the world]."
I think I know who will win out in the end, but in the meantime, the Elton Johns of the world are a royal pain in the butt.
Posted by: 'been around the block at November 18, 2006 06:34 PM
Religion is like homosexuality, it's ok until they try to stuff it down your throat.
Posted by: alex at November 18, 2006 07:16 PM
I agree with you, Alex, that anything that's stuffed down your throat is definitely a turn-off.
But who's stuffing religion down anyone's throat? We're sure getting the homosexual agenda in our faces at every turn...
Posted by: 'been around the block at November 18, 2006 10:06 PM
Golly gee....without creating such artificial differences between groups of sheeple in the human race, how can we justify all the murder,oppression and bigotry that's perpetrated upon the different in the name of righteousness?
It's a lot easier to pillage and steal, once the hate has been properly institutionalized and justified by our Grand Poobahs. Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.
Posted by: Raymond Hietapakka at November 19, 2006 05:36 AM
Did Sir John stop to think about what he said? Doubt it. He should at least consider the muzzle that has been placed on all religions in our 'democracy'. He can say get rid of all religions, but Christians are charged with hate crimes if they said the same about homosexuals. Somehow I think Sir John is on the side of our rulers--he is making it easier for them to shut us up--after all, a 'celebrity' said it, so it must be right?
Posted by: George at November 19, 2006 07:48 AM
As an a-thiest who would like to see the end of religions that involve belief in supernatural gods or transcendental ideals, Elton John comes off as a self-centred moron. Although I'm quite sympathetic to homosexuals as individuals, the "gay rights" movement seems quite destructive to the long-term interests of society. There seems to be a large class of people who just cannot comprehend emergent effects of social systems--like the NDP who just cannot comprehend that lowering taxes might increase government revenue, despite its empirical confirmation, time after time after time after time. When will they learn? You cannot attempt to displace religion unless you have a religion to replace it that deals with the psychic wounds that religion tends to. We are an ape with foresight, which continually triggers pre-human instincts below conscious awareness to fret over mortality and sexual reproduction (competition for genetic legacy) and we need religions to provide a psychic framework to handle it. Until a-thiests like Elton John and Richard Dawkins have thought through this to offer a credible vision, they should just shut up or stick to congenial critique on specific ethical issues. Christianty, for example, has modulated tremendously in the past 1500 years, which has been the real positive contribution of issue-specific critique by a-theists. eventually the Christians begin re-interpreting their Bible to accommodate the moral progression. As Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. (an a-theist) observed, social experimentation is a fine thing, so long as one appreciates it takes a century to replace a tree.
Posted by: murray at November 19, 2006 12:51 PM
No Biddy. He should just shut up, period.
Posted by: Gerry Atric at November 20, 2006 10:24 AM
EJ is a professional. Not my taste in music, yet acclaimed by millions. Too bad his sex ideas are so badly bent. Oscar Wild was gay too, but he was a brilliant writer.
If you admit, that while there may well be a super spirit or *god*, he sure as heck did not design any of the religions.
Religions are designed by groups of humans with like interests so that we can live together in peace and maximise profits for those who run things.
Religions are generally helpful and good except for one most recent religion that functions on blackmail and fear. This one starts up and makes fast advances using the bomb, bullet and knife but usually fails in the stretch when the masses awaken to what is really happening.
The masses today are not easily awakened. They are distracted by so many things.
I saw the masses by the thousands today on television, fighting to get into stores to buy some foolish game thingy. = TG
Posted by: TonyGuitar at November 20, 2006 12:50 PM
I'm an athiest as well but respect the structure religion, particularly Christianity, has brought to Western society. And the often denigrated "good works" remain that. The only rebuilding currently in process in New Orleans is under the auspices of dozens of different churches, e. g., Baptists, Mennonites, etc. My understanding from one of those volunteers is that the state and city are still fighting over what to do with the billions the federal government released to them last year. Guess that's something one won't see in the mainstream press.
My father indicated years ago that liberals want to tear everything down, but haven't through through what will take its place. My take is that gays, like many special-interest groups, need to generate issues so they can continue to feel down-trodden.
Posted by: angryinthecornbelt at November 20, 2006 01:54 PM
I'm glad he had the guts to say it. Any attack on religion earns the "Simon and the Lefties" seal of approval.
Go Team.
Posted by: M Carlos at November 20, 2006 01:54 PM
Without doubt, "Simon and the Lefties" must have more than a few screws loose.
BTW, 'love the poster!!
Posted by: 'been around the block at November 20, 2006 05:53 PM
Elton John can say as much as he likes, but remember God is mightier than anything on earth.
Posted by: Jan at November 21, 2006 07:59 AM
Amen, sister!
Posted by: 'been around the block at November 21, 2006 05:19 PM
Well, imagine there's no Elton, it isn't hard to do. Hey, didn't he sell his soul to the monolithic Disney Corp. along with that other English has-been, Phil Collins a few years ago?
Neither of these guys have had anything decent on the radio since the eighties, but their careers live on thanks to Disney movie soundtracks.
Good to see these poor starving blokes getting such sweet deals to avoid starving to death. I suppose neither would be able to survive based on their careers to date. (sarcasm off)
I'm most disappointed in Phil Collins because I used to really like him in Genesis; as for Elton, uggghhh.
I was just a kid when Elton was asked whether he preferred to date women or men. He answered by saying he actually had no preference. I was puzzled by this answer. I think I'm still puzzled by this answer.
Posted by: KRF at November 21, 2006 06:35 PM
It's depressing to hear ill-informed rants by trendy wierdos like EJ. But the aggressive positions staked out by homosexuals are not much different from anti-intellectual positions taken by scientologists, creationists/evolutionists, and muslims. There's always some key, fatal, unprovable, flaws in the logic upon which their principles are based. So debate often degenerates into illogical screaming matches. Homos, for example will argue - without the slightest bit of scientific evidence - that homosexuality is a genetic trait. Or that Christianity promotes hatred of gays. They will also deny, against mountains of evidence, that man-on-man sex is responsible for horrendous epidemics of disease. So what to do about yet another illogical homosexual rant from someone like Elton John? Just keep repeating the facts. Let go of the spiritual arguments for the time being, and just focus on irrefutable facts, over and over again:
Male homosexuality creates massive disease problems worldwide.
HIV/AIDS is a homosexual disease.
People can change.
Christians don't hate gay people.
Marriage is a useful tool for a man and a woman
Christianity works - in many ways
Research these topics and have facts and numbers. It's easy to do. Use Google instead of the Bible!
I mean, the Bible is great for Christians and Jews, but it's almost useless for arguing with homosexuals. Stick with the supportable facts, man!
Posted by: JJoseph at November 22, 2006 02:49 AM
50 years from now, all those BLUEHAIRS clogging the Churches will be GONZO. This town I live in, is full of MOSTLY-EMPTY CHURCHES already.
Posted by: Raymond Hietapakka at November 28, 2006 01:48 PM
Elton John should read Jim Wallis' book, "God's Politics: What the Right get wrong and the Left doesn't get." Wallis states it much better than I could when he says "The best response to bad religion is better religion, not secularism."
The religious right has alligned itself with the rich and powerful, and made gay bashing one of its central themes. This is bad religion. It ignores the fact that Jesus alligned himself with the poor and yes, sinners, and ones he "bashed" were the rich and powerful - calling them theaves, white washed tombs and snakes. The right likes to talk about family values, but only seems to care about a child before it is born. How life affirming is it to deny basic healthcare, affordable housing and access to quality education to poor families, or to send young men and women off to die in an unjust war?
True Christianity teaches that serving the poor, homeless, sick and disadvantaged is a moral imperative. Being pro-life means being anti-war. Is homosexuality a sin? Probably, but so is prostitution, and Jesus hung out with prostitutes. I don't know of a single scripture that commands Christians to go out and condemn sinners. If you can find one, please point it out to me.
Finally as other have pointed out, Sir Elton John also ignores the good work that religious groups do. The overwhelming majority of non-governmental social services are carried out by religion alligned groups. While Elton John writes songs for dead blondes, dedicated missionaries and christian aid groups treat AIDS in Africa, put themselves in front of bulldozers in the West Bank and speak truth to American power in Iraq - not to mention local charities fighting homelessness and poverty in the inner cities in Canada and the US.
Posted by: Don at December 1, 2006 02:48 PM
It is totally deceitful to attribute evil to religious people like Don did in the above post. No Christian ever condemns homos. It's just not done, ever. The only "gay bashers" in Canada are young atheist thugs who stalk gays and beat on them. Some of these are east indians, and they're occasionally caught and convicted by Christian cops and judges. It's a disgusting homo tactic to say that Christians bash gays, and it explains in part why so many people are suspicious of homos. Most people know what Christians are like, and are appalled when gays try to accuse Christians of thuggery. Oh, and let's not forget that Hitler and the SS goons were also a bunch of prancing homos, and most of us older types won't forget that piece of history very easily. And lets not forget that homos are also walking HIV/AIDS disease factories, too.
Posted by: JJoseph at December 15, 2006 07:18 PM
I think it ought to be a crime to claim to know the mind of god. Spirituality yes, religion no.
Much of current religious dogma is hate speech. It should be prosecuted as such. The bible, along with all other religious texts should be moved to the fiction sections of libraries.
Posted by: Lefty at January 31, 2007 05:36 PM
 
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