Dual citizenship is bunk. I know this clown, who can do whatever he wants in Qannadda, and they still have to let him into the USA, he's got the passport. Dual passports are for SLEAZEBAGS, who want the best of both worlds.

Posted by: Feldwebel Wolfenstool at July 19, 2006 01:59 PM

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As a humanitarian rescue mission our government is picking up all people who hold Canadian citizenship and rightly so. If those who have been permanent residents of Lebanon, with no intent to return to Canada, let them pay for their own way back to their "homeland" when and if they choose. We have to be very concerned about who boards the rescue ships, Hezbollah is woven into the Lebanese society and even elected members to their parliament. At this time we may even have supporters or sympathizers on our soil, lets hope none of them get on board our rescue ships.

Posted by: Liz J at July 19, 2006 01:59 PM

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Perhaps as somebody who has dual citizenship and lives in Canada, I personally think that this issue is a load of self-gratifying politician BS from top to bottom (does it surprise anyone that Garth Turner is raising this?).

Just who gets to decide whether somebody who calls themselves Canadian and has a Canadian citizenship is really a Canadian? And who is going to personally decide to strand that Canadian in the middle of a warzone just because of some high and mighty, nose-in-the-air attitude of what it takes to be Canadian? And just how do and why would you differentiate between somebody who spends long periods of time in one country or another as being Candian enough or not?

Talk about arrogance.

Posted by: Surecure at July 19, 2006 02:31 PM

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Steve, I disagree.

If the about 35,000 dual citizen Canadians who are residing in Lebanon take advantage of our generous option it will cost all taxpayers $10.5 million dollars (assuming only $3000 per person in expenses - chartering planes, boats, accomodation and food and living expenses, not to mention staff time but I pulled that number out of the air, it could be much higher.)

I believe that all residents of Canada (regardless of citizenship) who are in Lebanon should be brought home for free by our government. They are the ones contributing to our country through their tax dollars.

And I feel all those who hold Canadian passports but are non-resident should be evacuated by our government if they wish to return to Canada, but for a fee.

From the Government of Canada Travel Updates instructions for those fleeing Lebanon:

"Canadians and their dependants should gather their passports and other important documents. Canadians who possess expired Canadian travel documents will be issued emergency passports."

So it seems we are paying to bring back not only Canadians (including those without valid passports), but also their non-Canadian dependants.

If all dual citizenship Lebanese come back to Canada there will be a huge strain on our economy as we have to find jobs for these 35000 people, and supply them housing while they reestablish themselves.

I do know that most, if not all, will go on to find jobs and contribute greatly to our economy (around here Lebanese Canadians are major entrepreneurs who create jobs and don't milk our system). In the long-term, should they stay this time, their return to Canada will help expand our economy but the economy will take a short-term hit.

I think there are enough things causing short-term hits to our economy (i.e. severe storm damage, Native Blockade, and the ever present possibility of terrorism on Canadian soil) that our government shouldn't go looking for ways to spend money that needs to be saved for a rainy day.

Posted by: Kathryn in Canada at July 19, 2006 02:31 PM

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Have to disagree with you on this one Steve...why not evacuate the Brit, French, or Zambutu's while we're at it?

...oh but they aren't ours. Well isn't this making a distinction based on a piece of paper?

Then who's to say that the Bongobongo tribesman, Brit or Frenchman over there haven't been doing more for Canada in contract work or humanitarian aide than the bozo/bimbo who lives with their family 365 days a year over there?

Folks living in Lebanon and NOT paying Canadian taxes are only Canadians in name and should find their own way out.

Remember I'm paying for this plane flight and have the right to state 'vacationing tax paying Canadians' only.

I know that sounds harsh - fact of life. The plane holds only so many.

With the "a Canadian citizen is a Canadian citizen, period" - sounds nice, well tell that to the homegrown terrorist yahoo's who wanted to blow up Toronto or the imported strippers who beat cue lines due to uh, anatomy, and wholesome Canadian moral values.

Heck, why not use Uncle Pauls CSL boats seeing I paid for part of it also? Would be good PR for Paul.

Posted by: tomax7 at July 19, 2006 02:46 PM

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The correct figure is more like 25,000 or less and I read in several places where only about 8,000 are asking for a lift home.

[I just wonder that Hitler didn*t accuse Churchill of being disproportionate. Ease up? Pull punches? Oh sorry, did that smart?]

Guess I am more verbose than average here, but..

I was wondering about the Saudi attitude and their silence and... Bingo! - found a comment that touched on these points from a well informed person on the,

http:// IraqTheModel.blogspot.com

Sounds correct to me.
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Where does Saudi Arabia stand on all of this - are they on the side of Syria/Iran or are they on the side of Palestine/Iraq/Lebanon?

The Saudis have already come out placing the blame for this fight on the Hez.

Absolutely the last thing that the Sunni Sauds want is non-arab Iranian Shiite dominance of Islam as a religion and of the Persian Gulf region. I think they could be persuaded to go a long way to prevent that, especially as Iran prepares to go nuclear. Think tribal if you will, but even Clausewitz would have understood this dynamic.

So far the Arab League has sidelined itself. They seem to have no problem with Israelis exterminating the Shiite Hez either.

Again, the Sauds really don't like the idea of a Shiite enclave in Lebanon. They also really dislike that a Sunni state like Syria is a willing pawn for their Shiite enemy. I'm willing to bet that they're bending Assad*s ear on this.

I think Tony Snow just stated that the diplomatic contacts with Syria are being left to the Arabs
Infidel | 07.19.06 - 2:09 pm | #
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= TG
Who killed the electric car?
TonyGuitar.blogspot.com

Posted by: TonyGuitar at July 19, 2006 03:22 PM

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ET over at SDA has a good post:

"Exactly right - to the posters here who are noting that there's something seriously wrong with this '40,000 - 60,000' "Canadians" in Lebanon.

It simply doesn't make sense. This is twice, thrice, four, five times as many as any other country - countries with larger populations and closer to Lebanon than Canada. So - what's going on?

Then, we find out that only about 5,000 are visitors. The rest are PERMANENT residents of Lebanon. They are NOT Canadian immigrants; they have no intention of immigrating to Canada. They do NOT pay Canadian taxes. But - in time of need, they certainly make use of that 'extra citizenship' that only Canada is dumb enough to give them..and insist that the Canadian taxpayer pay for their getting out of the country.

What are 40,000 'fake Canadians' doing, claiming dual citizenship, but having no intention of ever, ever, ever, living in Canada or contributing to Canada or paying taxes or... What are they doing with our citizenship papers? How did they get them? Why?

And why should the Canadian taxpayer rescue these fake Canadians? Is the criteria of being a Canadian simply having a passport - or is there something else required. Such as residency; such as paying taxes; even such a minor attribute of having been born here. If you have NONE, NONE of these qualities - then, why do you claim Canadian citizenship? And why do you claim that Canada should pay for you? Why not Lebanon?

And yes, Canadian Observer - a very good point - the citizens of Caledonia sure paid their taxes, they are residents, they are Canadians - but their govt (in this case, the Ontario) gov't treated them as if they were not citizens.

Oh - and as for speed of rescue - how do you arrange transport, not for the few thousand Brits that are there, or the few thousand from France and other countries - but - the 25,000 and up 'fake Canadians' who have requested that 'their' (sarcasm) country come to their assistance.

And remember the Liberal DART team during the Dec 26 tsunami crisis? The DART team that is supposed to be Ready and There in 48 hours? And didn't arrive until January 10..long after the Americans and Aussies had arrived and cleaned up the place? Remember those 48 hours (hmm..three weeks..)...and how the Liberals had to rent Russian planes to get them there? And that's only for a DART team. But the Liberals are ever-ready to criticize getting 25,000 fake Canadians out in less than a week."

Posted by: tomax7 at July 19, 2006 04:22 PM

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It' a very complicated approach and the legacy details are making it harder still

Posted by: Triton at July 19, 2006 04:43 PM

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$3000 multiplied by 35,000 is $105 million not 10.5

Posted by: MB at July 19, 2006 05:44 PM

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Let's get one thing clear. These '40,000' Canadians in Lebanon needing rescue are simply NOT real Canadians. Rather they are just another third world population needing a reliable Canadian lifeboat.

Kind of like the alleged 'Canadians' travelling home to India a few years ago on an Air-INDIA plane that had some bad luck with SIKH terrorists.

It is such a tragedy that a fine nation (English and French Canadians) have allowed their country to become a third world dump.

This commentary is written from central Toronto.

Posted by: North at July 19, 2006 06:09 PM

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As a Canadian living in the US, I find the comments on this board about what it takes to be a "real" Canadian disgusting. For those that argue its about paying taxes, then what you are really doing is saying that there is a certain amount that should one should be required to pay to be Canadian. Of course these tend to be the same people who argue you shouldn't be able to "buy" citizenship in the first place... However, if you are going to insist on paying taxes, what exactly is that price? If the people have paid $1million in taxes prior to leaving for Lebanon should we rescue them? How about $10million, that is more than most "real" canadians will pay in a lifetime....

Should they have had to vote? How many of you realize that if you haven't lived in Canada for 5 years the government forbids you from voting (see elections act), contrary to what the consitution says.

Does all of the business I generate for Canadian companies count towards my Canadianeness? How about the goodwill one generates for ones home country when abroad? How about the American taxes I pay, should I get a credit for supporting the US military and R&D that effectively subsidizes the Canadian miliatary, and thus taxpayer.

There is nothing wrong with demaning certain responsibilities of citizenship, but they should be clear and known before hand. Steve's request for a debate after the matter is fair, but I strongly suggest not making taxation part of it. Canada will hurt itself more in the long run this way. Further, you had better make sure they are responsibilities that people that happen to live within the boarder have to fullfil as well.

Posted by: Steve at July 19, 2006 06:38 PM

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I'll reply to Steve (not Angry).

Steve said, "For those that argue its about paying taxes, then what you are really doing is saying that there is a certain amount that should one should be required to pay to be Canadian."

No, I'm not. I do expect those being rescued, on my dime, to be contributing to Canadian society. It isn't about dollars, it is about being apart of my society and I believe that is only done by living here. Promoting good will overseas is something but not enough to my way of thinking. I didn't say such a citizen could not return to Canada but I did say I didn't want to pay for their return.

Our family, because of our unique business, derives most of its income from non-Canadian sources. Yet, despite the tax disadvantages, I choose to pay taxes here (often after paying to foreign governments as well). I do so because after spending time in many other countries (and none of them 'challenging' developing countries, all have been well-developed Western democracies) I feel that I was truly blessed to be born Canadian and there is no better place in the world to live.

The US, btw, doesn't seem to be paying to bring her citizens home. Ny American client he heard the evacuees had to pay their way. I can't find anything saying that, but I did see that citizens will continue their trip home from Cypress on commercial airliners (rather than the chartered jets Canada is using.)

Posted by: Kathryn in Canada at July 19, 2006 09:31 PM

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Tomax7

The DART team WAS ready to deploy to the tsunimi disaster region long before they actually left. If you might remember they had to wait for the Liberal powers that were to actually make a decision as to what might be right and make them look good at the same time. A more accurate analysis of that situation might be to look at the timing of the arrival of the DART team and that of of Paul Martin's demonstration of getting in the way of important work in progress.

Posted by: vieux loup at July 19, 2006 09:34 PM

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Actually Kathryn, the U.S. will be paying to bring their citizens out of Lebanon after all (you're correct about initial reports, and what the State Department was doing initially).

Their State Department was shamed into it when people couldn't believe that American citizens were being forced to pay the costs of being evacuated from a war zone.

I get the feeling a lot of commentators here would not have been outraged had our government treated Canadian citizens in the same way. Good for Prime Minister Harper and the government for helping to get these citizens out. I hope many more get out tomorrow than got out today, and none of these citizens should have to pay a dime (to get out of Lebanon at least... maybe getting out of Cypress is different).

Posted by: at July 19, 2006 11:08 PM

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That's me commenting above....

Hit "Post" without putting my name in!

Posted by: Lord Kitchener's Own at July 19, 2006 11:10 PM

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While DART may have been ready, somewhere along the line something wasn't ready. Whether it be Funding, Flying, or Foresight.

Meaning no one at DART, Military, or Transport Canada had the foresight to think/arrange/bank on how to fly a X# ton piece of equipment in 24 hours?

No one heard of contingency plans? Not blaming DART, but someone was asleep at the wheel and definately the Liberals were responsible.

Back to Steve and taxes. Yes we could split hairs over who paid taxes and who doesn't, who qualifies and who doesn't but remember my comment about if a foreigner does contract or humanitarian aide for Canada should be treated as one.

Still there has to be some way to distinguish between Canadians and free loafers, but not in todays' PC environment.

Like other posters said, 10,000 Canadians is a bit dispreportional to other countries. Maybe I missed it but is 10,000 actual bodies, or 10,000 registered passports?

One would think CSIS and the RCMP would be on this like a hot potatoe.

Like I said when I was a kid to someone who came over and was complaining about Canada, why not just leave and go back where you came from?

Posted by: tomax7 at July 19, 2006 11:31 PM

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"It is such a tragedy that a fine nation (English and French Canadians) have allowed their country to become a third world dump."

Absolute garbage. My family's been here for generations and we don't belong to either group. And British/French Canadians wonder why other groups are hesistant to fly the flag with equal fervour... If this was happening in Britain I doubt we'd be seeing the same hand-wringing and penny-pinching.

And bravo to Steve Harper for acting like an old school leader (ie leading the battle; putting himself at risk) rather than a modern bureaucrat.

Posted by: Cynapse at July 19, 2006 11:45 PM

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