An Open Skies observation mission of the Six Nations Reserve? [Update]
Was there indeed a spy flight over the Six Nations Reseve?
Update [12:45pm on June 30]
I just got off the phone with LCol Reid McBride, responsible for Open Skies working in the Arms Control Verification Directorate of the Strategic Joint Staff in National Defence in Ottawa. With his permission, he is letting me use his name. He assures me with, with 100% certainty, that no Open Skies missions have been conducted in Canada over the last several months. We chatted about some of the finer points of the treaty, including some elements of particular relevance to Caledonia. For example, the treaty puts a limit on resolution for imagery, no better than 30cm. At that resolutuion, you can tell a tank from a truck, but you would find it impossible to evaluate a bunker, for example.
So what flew over the area? He says it could have been a cargo plane in a holding pattern waiting to go to Hamilton. Lots of cargo planes for smaller haulers are flying old DC-8s and 707s.
In other words, in the words of this professional, this was certainly an innocent coincidence.
One of the elements of the recent emails I received recently on the events in Caledonia involved a mysterious overflight of the area:
Did any of you notice yesterday a large aircraft, approximately the size of a passenger jet, flying straight over town? That was a USA spy plane specially equipped to take pictures of bunkers, ammunition holdings, well you get the picture. This was not a jet that had taken off or was landing at Mt. Hope [ed. Mount Hope is the location of Hamilton’s international airport]. It made several passes over DCE and then shot up into the sky! It would only be here with permission and permission would only be given if our politicians didn't acknowledge this is not just a warm and fuzzy, peaceful protest by moccasin wearing, bead stringing natives! This is war!
I was skeptical, but then this comment was posted:
I witnessed the plane fly over.
It approached from the east (Niagara Falls AFB??) and after going over Caledonia at an estimated 3000 to 4000 feet; it applied full power and climbed quickly. It confused me at first because it had 4 jet engines and they were smaller diameter ones like the old Boeing 707’s. It was obviously not a passenger plane like an Airbus that can have 4 engines, but those have engines that are larger diameter. It was also not a ‘wide-body’ airliner. I believe it was one of these planes.
http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=120
“The aircraft is a modified WC-135B. The OC-135B modifications center around four cameras installed in the rear of the aircraft. Since its primary mission is to take pictures, most of the installed equipment and systems provide direct support to the cameras and the camera operator.”
The OC-135B is the American surveillance aircraft certified for use in the Open Skies Treaty, of which is a signatory:
The Treaty on Open Skies entered into force on January 1, 2002, and currently has 34 States Parties. It establishes a program of unarmed aerial surveillance flights over the entire territory of its participants. The treaty is designed to enhance mutual understanding and confidence by giving all participants, regardless of size, a direct role in gathering information about military forces and activities of concern to them. Open Skies is one of the most wide-ranging international efforts to date promoting openness and transparency of military forces and activities.
The Open Skies regime covers the territory over which the State Party exercises sovereignty, including land, islands, and internal and territorial waters. The treaty specifies that the entire territory of a State Party is open to observation. Observation flights may only be restricted for reasons of flight safety; not for reasons of national security.
Open Skies aircraft may have video, optical panoramic and framing cameras for daylight photography, infra-red line scanners for a day/night capability, and synthetic aperture radar for a day/night all weather capability. Photographic image quality will permit recognition of major military equipment (e.g., permit a State Party to distinguish between a tank and a truck), thus allowing significant transparency of military forces and activities. Sensor categories may be added and capabilities improved by agreement among States Parties. All equipment used in Open Skies must be commercially available to all participants in the regime.
The way it works is that the observation aircraft goes to the country to be subject to a flight. The observed country has to be given at least 72 hours warning of the intention to conduct an observation flight. Each country has one or more airfields designated as Open Skies airfields, as well as entry points identified in its airspace for the treaty. The observing country flies a certified aircraft through the entry point and to a designated airfield. Inspections are performed, and a delegation from the observed country boards the aircraft. The observed country is obligated to clear the aircraft for flight such that it can complete its mission within 96 hours of its arrival at the point of entry.
In Canada, the airfields from which the US can initiate a flight under this treaty are Ottawa, Iqaluit, and Yellowknife.
If there was such a flight on June 27, it could have been sceduled as recently as June 25 or June 26 (assuming 24 hours notice and just a few hours on the ground in Ottawa prior to clearance) or as far back as June 20 (assuming the maximum three days notice and the maximum four days from entering Canadian airspace to completing the overflight).
Of course, if this was a friendly flight, the Canadian and American governments could be working on any timeline they liked, and just submitted the paperwork as desired to meet the obligations of the treaty under which this flight was operating.
Assuming the flight happened, and that it was an Open Skies Treaty flight.
What's interesting is that the data collected is shared by all members. If Canada wanted to use US assets to peak into what was going on, the government could use the Open Skies Treaty as a cover to have the US do them a favour and fly over the reserve and then hand over all the data.
The Open Skies website in the US ("Developing trust -- one frame at a time") does not list any missions over Canada, but then I'd be surprised if it was updated that often.
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Comments
It's entertaining to imagine that the residents of the reservation are worthy of the sort of expensive attention that a real spy plane could direct at them. It's just as likely that this plane was visiting the Hamilton museum, or perhaps associated with the Oshawa aviation expo during the weekend.
If it were I trying to "spy" on these folks, I'd rent a teeny airplane, fly low & slow, and take some fine pictures with a telephoto-lensed camera. But really ... could the "intelligence" so gathered be worth even those few hundred bucks?
Posted by: Frank Ch. Eigler at June 29, 2006 01:00 PM
I would tend to think that a small plane and a telephoto lens would not provide the government the kind of detail they would need if they were interested in confirming the "bunker" claims made by some people around the site. A plane like the one described would provide detail and intelligence in one pass that would take a small plane and a single camera hours to record - and that would be if you could shoot every square inch of the property. There is also other equipment on that kind of plane that would provide additional intelligence. Not a stretch to believe that a pass over the area wouldn't be requested by the Canadian government. Especially if they believe that the protestors and warriors have been less then truthful in their 'peaceful' claims.
Posted by: ProudAcadian at June 29, 2006 01:13 PM
More likely it was a BAE 146 RJ. This is a small commercial airliner. They are operated in Canada by Air Canada and possibly others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAe_146
Posted by: Kevin at June 29, 2006 01:21 PM
I have flown as a passenger on the BAe_146. Most are flown in the US by commuter airline like US Air. I can assure you the plane I saw over Caledonia was not a BAe_146. The BAe_146 has a high over the fuselage wing configuration, under slung engines and a Tee tail. They also have newer Turbofan engines which are distinctive because of their larger diameter when compared with the Pratt & Whitney TF33-P-5 Turbofans
The plane I saw cross the sky in Caledonia had an under fuselage wing configuration and a lower horizontal stabilizer - not a high Tee tail. It was also much larger then the BAe_146 and did not have the distinctive paint job of most airlines - it appeared gray from the underside. It was easy to see as it was no more then 3 or 4 thousand feet up as it crossed Caledonia.
Also, Air Canada does not operate BAe_146's.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/current.html
Posted by: SickandTired at June 29, 2006 02:08 PM
With all due respect, doesn't this kinda sound like a Meaghan Moon bat (or whatever alias she's using at the moment) black helicopter scenario?
Posted by: BrianLemon at June 29, 2006 02:45 PM
The US airforce jet you speak of, and I believe the eye witness is correct, is a Boeing 707 heavily modified for intelligence gathering by a very broad array or sensors, not limited to photography. These sensors are highly classified, and capable of collecting visual, electronic and IR signals as well as some that are too classified to discuss. Possibly wall-penetrating radar ect.
I suspect that if indeed the Canadian government requested the fly-over, it was to collect and analyse the radio frequencies used by the terrorists and to take clear and acurate mapping of the site. All this means is that 'something' is gonna happen soon....and it won't be good for the terrorists....at least I HOPE that is the case.
That chickenshit McShifty is too much of a coward to do the dirty work, so has asked the feds, or possibly the military to do it for him.
Posted by: arctic_front at June 29, 2006 03:06 PM
It wasn't a black helicopter, it was a gray plane ;-)
I hear what your saying, I am only reporting what I saw fly over Caledonia. Was it taking pictures? I can't say... Was it a spy plane? Who knows. Maybe it was some third world cargo carrier still flying 4 engine 707's, Although 707s are no longer employed by major US airlines, many can still be found in service with smaller non-US airlines, charter services and air cargo operations. Although I haven't seen a civilian 707 in probably 15 years. Not to many large 4 engine - small diameter fuselage planes around anymore...
Posted by: SickandTired at June 29, 2006 03:07 PM
Was it CIA?
There are some rumours the occupiers have had some consultations from groups with ties to the Palestinians.
These are just rumours not facts, I'm just offering a plausible explaination.
It could also have been just a charter by the government to make the Natives think some hi-tech government org. is spying on them (read: they won't be dealing with the OPP next time).
Posted by: gimbol at June 29, 2006 03:35 PM
Like I said in another thread, I saw this aircraft: (www.pbase.com/ bryan_murahashi/image/54740225) the Orion sub hunter fly over my place in Ancaster earlier this week. Possibly Monday or Tuesday. The one I saw was grey, I couldn't make out the markings to tell if it was American or ours.
Its pretty far to the ocean from here, that's all I'm sayin'.
Posted by: The Phantom at June 29, 2006 05:56 PM
Like I said in another thread, I saw this aircraft: (www.pbase.com/
bryan_murahashi/image/54740225) the Orion sub hunter fly over my place in Ancaster earlier this week. Possibly Monday or Tuesday. The one I saw was grey, I couldn't make out the markings to tell if it was American or ours.
Its pretty far to the ocean from here, that's all I'm sayin'.
Posted by: The Phantom at June 29, 2006 05:58 PM
The Orion is a propeller-engined plane. It also has a distinct projection out of the back. I am not saying it was not over Ancaster, it was not the plane I saw over Caledonia. It was definitely a Jet Engines plane. At the altitude it was at, it was plainly visible and the sound was distinct. There is no mistaking the sound of a jet engine plane climbing away from you...
Posted by: SickandTired at June 29, 2006 06:34 PM
They are worried that Al Qaeda is going to use the Indian reserves as a staging point for an attack with weapons of mass destruction...not such an outrageous possibility, really (the enemy of my enemy is my friend)...X-Ray them down to the molecule, I say.
Posted by: Sticky at June 29, 2006 08:41 PM
who are "they" sticky? if you mean you and I are worried then you're absolutely correct. I fear the "nations" are being used as an in to this country for far more nefarious shenanigans...
as for planes and such couldn't you just google earth? zero right in on 'em?
Posted by: kelly at June 29, 2006 10:37 PM
The problem with Google earth is two fold. The resolution isn't good enough to see down to the fine detail needed to determine a house from a pile of dirt in low resolution areas. Only certain areas of the country have high resolution areas available. You can tell these areas as darker sections when you zoom in. Actually, there is a high resolution area just to the South West of Caledonia, but not in Caledonia (interesting to see Six Nations reserve as it shows clearly with all the trees).
The other problem with Google Earth is that the images are complilations of photos that are often years old. Try zooming in where new highways are now and you will see what I mean. In fact, Douglas Creek Estates (Caledonia) in Google Earth shows a green field - indicating that it is still farm land. The site has been cleared for homes and is only brown dirt now.
The pictures on Google Earth are not live images from 'spy' satellites.
Posted by: medicman at June 29, 2006 11:27 PM
I just had a scary thought and I hope someone can ease my mind. Isn't the foundation of a democracy the rule of law? Aren't the courts the final say? If I recall correctly the Ontario Supreme Court ordered the police and the Gov't of Ontario to restore order in Caledonia. Did the justice rescind that order, as it doesn't seem that the police and the Ontario Gov't are obeying the order. If the police and Gov't can get away with ignoring the court are we that far from anarchy?
Posted by: mike at June 30, 2006 12:09 AM
With that lying coward McGuinty and the other snivelling coward, his AG Bryant, supposedly running things we are not far from a complete inssurection. These scumbags need to be tossed out now never mind 2007.
Posted by: Pissedoff at June 30, 2006 08:16 AM
Like I said in the earlier thread, this is the sheerest sort of black-helicopter nonsense. If I'm not mistaken low-level airways V84 and V443 both traverse the reservation's airspace and meet at intersection NORCH. Lots of aircraft of all types use these pre-defined low-level airways.
Additionally, keep in mind this is summer, entering the height of the air show season, and any number of airframes based on the 707 (i.e. KC-135, OC-135, WC-135, RC-135) will be flying all over North America doing nothing more sinister than heading to podhunk airfields across the continent to sit on static display for a couple of days.
I have seen 55 Wing's most exalted PHOTINT and ELINT spy aircraft like the RC-135V/W on the tarmac at London and Hamilton air shows, for instance, and these birds have to fly over somebody to get there.
Posted by: Chris Taylor at June 30, 2006 10:23 AM
Unless somebody just put a bunch of stamps on the side and let the post office worry about it.
Posted by: Jay at June 30, 2006 11:05 AM
I really resent that Liberals think advancing anti-American ideas will lead to success at the polls.
Anti-American themes show up in their latest money appeal newsletter, [today, June 30/06].
===== quote part of the LPC Email ====
and half-hearted subsidies, Mr. Harper is aligning Canadian policy with that of George Bush’s United States.
Which of these Harper policies do you think most aligns Canada with George Bush’s United States?
* Cancelling Canada’s commitment to the Kyoto Accord
* Assigning Fixed Election Dates
* Catering to the NRA-style gun lobby
* Destroying the Kelowna Accord
* Tax increases for the poor, and tax cuts for the rich
* Arming Canada’s Borders
* Bowing to US Softwood Lumber Demands
Seven policies: Seven steps towards a Republican Canada.
It’s time to shine a spotlight on Stephen Harper’s real agenda. More than ever, the Liberal Party of Canada needs your help to defeat this emerging threat.
Here are some ways you can make a difference right now:
1) MAKE A DONATION TODAY to the Liberal Party of Canada
========= End Quote=====
Sorry,
I will never donate to those who bash Generous Good hearted Americans while they hold off Jihadist terrorists bent upon our destruction. TG
Posted by: TG at June 30, 2006 11:30 AM
I'd like to take a moment to address your post with all of the seriousness and consideration that it warrants... BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
There you go. Wack-job...
Posted by: z_geist_the_spook at June 30, 2006 11:53 AM
Kelly: 'They' are the gov't agency that OK'd the spy plane fly-overs...I think it's a really good idea...they should be checking for radiation and bio weapons as well.
Posted by: Sticky at June 30, 2006 11:59 AM
I will leave the discussion about 'spy planes' to the guys that are working on their first tinfoil hat. As for the liberal pamphlet, I find it disgusting and not just a little sad that there are people that will fall for that'hidden agenda' crap AGAIN. Personally I hope Harper can sway enough people in Ontario to give him a majority come next election.
Posted by: Rick at June 30, 2006 12:17 PM
Not to disparage the good LCol, but Hamilton's hold points are Toronto VOR, London VOR, and COLTS intersection, none of which are anywhere near the reserve.
It was probably an aircraft climbing along one of the low-level airways on its way to cruise altitude and enroute transit along a high-level airway.
Posted by: Chris Taylor at June 30, 2006 12:33 PM
Hamilton's HAMILTON SEVEN departure from Rwy 24 has aircraft climb to 3000ft ASL on the runway heading (239 true) until assigned radar vectors. Heading 239 from the runway end carries departing aircraft directly over the reserve.
There's your answer. Everyone can put away the tinfoil now.
Posted by: Chris Taylor at June 30, 2006 12:44 PM
I say put a permanent blimp over the land with high end cameras and start looking at facial recognition software, count warm bodies with thermal sensors, investigate with high end radar to count weapons and emit high frequency noise directly at the land to impede cellular tower operation and airwave cable signals, walkie talkies, etc.
I wish the cop Sean Connery played in the Untouchables was our premier instead of that gutless yellow bellied mcshifty. He'd have this resolved in a matter of days, if not hours.
Posted by: TrustOnlyMulder at June 30, 2006 12:54 PM
I can only report what I saw. The flight was from the East (west bound) flying a low level (3000 to 4000 feet) and not climbing (level flight) until after it got past Caledonia, then it climbed agressively. Did not look like it was in a pattern or regular circling Mount Hope flight path.
I identified the plane from it's appearance as I had a good look at it. It could also have been...
http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=100
Or...
http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=121
But from the angle I saw the plane, I don't think it was a JointStar as it did not appear to have the protrusion under it's front.
Maybe it was a US plane on it's way to an airshow and wanted to 'have a look' at the area. Or maybe it was an old 707 cargo plane that had left Mount Hope and also wanted to have a look before climbing away.
Anyway, if it was a 'spy plane', I am sure that a simple call to an official would have confirmed it was and they would have exposed all. That is what intelligence services do, isn't it?
Posted by: SickandTired at June 30, 2006 01:40 PM
It still sounds entirely consistent with a departure profile from Rwy 24. The runway heading (239) is a west-southwestern course -- just thirty degrees off 270.
Did you see black "USAF" block-text and the star decal on the underside of the wing? They are pretty large and hard to miss.
Posted by: Chris Taylor at June 30, 2006 03:09 PM
Dang!
Was hoping for our own homegrown version of Roswell...
...well, my tinfoil hat was getting hot in the sun...
Posted by: tomax7 at June 30, 2006 04:07 PM
Didn't notice any markings under wing...
Be careful with the tinfoil hat, they show up on satellite photos... ;-)
Posted by: SickandTired at June 30, 2006 04:50 PM
"Did the justice rescind that order, as it doesn't seem that the police and the Ontario Gov't are obeying the order."
I can answer this: The OPP uphold the laws of Ontario and Canada. The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that aboriginals addressing land claims' issues are not to be removed like criminals. Canada's land claims process is so slow and so far behind, that the grievances of the aboriginals are quite valid, and violence is not called for. The Supreme Court of Canada trumps an Ontario injunction. The OPP are upholding the law.
Posted by: saga at June 30, 2006 09:10 PM
"that the grievances of the aboriginals are quite valid, and violence is not called for. The Supreme Court of Canada trumps an Ontario injunction. The OPP are upholding the law."
While I will agree that not enforcing the injunction might fit into your description, not arresting aboriginals who are attacking a camera crew and stealing their equipment while standing by and watching is not upholding the law.
I also agree with your point that violence is not called for and hope the aboriginal protestors will continue to refrain from any further violence.
Posted by: medicman at June 30, 2006 10:36 PM
The doctor hopes that impulsive warriors who have prison records because they have a habit of resorting to violence upon impulse, will behave with restraint.
That is a high degree of hopefulness.
very commendable. TG
Posted by: TonyGuitar at July 1, 2006 08:37 AM
Americans... please note.
Do not be offended. There is no general dislike of US citizens in Canada.
There is a mistaken thought on the part of the Liberal Party of Canada that Bush bashing gives them that independent feisty quality that Canadians love to vote for.
The 1820s have long gone and the combative dislike for American musketeers has long dissipated as well.
Please pay no attention to a disgraced and defeated Liberal Party of Canada.
I worry that the Liberals may fade away completely. We do need them to split the vote of our National Dipstick Party.
The NDP are a sort of socialist / communist mix who would provide every citizen with every service for free. All free services would be paid out of corporate profits and our natural resources.
We would all become 450 pound state dependants until the economy crashed. Then we would all enjoy going straight, living on bread and water until we got used to working again. Utopia! TG
Posted by: TonyGuitar at July 1, 2006 09:11 AM
The plane was probably the OPP's PILATUS observation aircraft, based near me. It has FLIR, THERMAL IMAGING SENSORS, and can take a picture of me, clearly picking my nose, from 10,000 feet in TOTAL DARKNESS...the technology existed to read the time offa someone's WRISTWATCH, from 100 miles up in Space existed way back at least to 1966.
Posted by: Feldwebel Wolfenstool at July 3, 2006 07:37 AM
Oh who the hell cares if a plane flies over... jeez, fly over my house and take all the pictures you want, I could care less.
It sounds like whoever saw the plane has no freaking clue what type of plane it is, and used the power of google to come up with the most insidious sounding one...
Whatever. Who cares.
Posted by: Heather Cook at July 3, 2006 09:47 AM
...obviously someone who wants people to visit their goodapple blogspot cares.
Nice to know you have nothing to hide that the government might want to take pictures of...I feel safer now.
Posted by: medicman at July 3, 2006 10:21 AM
 
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