Why shouldn't the official languages minister be English? Why shouldn't we promote the use of English in Quebec for a change? (rather than promote the use of French in Canada)

I mean learning English can open up whole new worlds of opportunity for people. Which is much more valuable than learning a backwater obscure dialect of french.

Posted by: Curtis at February 10, 2006 06:10 PM

---

To me the 'Francofonie' is just that a bunch of die hard Les Miserables(?) getting together to talk about the good ol' days back before WW1.

Something about that culture. I remember a couple of years ago Quebec wanted all Canadian Internet sites, or at least ones in Quebec to be French first.

Like when I get hosting email from one company (Sibername) I deal with in Ottawierd, everything is French first and you gotta scroll down to get to the English.

Mais oui!

Posted by: tomax at February 10, 2006 06:12 PM

---

Curtis, don't get me started. My wifes from Montreal (west island). We go back to visit her parents every other year.

While I do see an opening of tolerance to us "les anglais" visiting, I feel sorry for the kids.

I posted awhile back about how this French experiment with Quebec language laws are screwing the youth out of their future.

Right now my inlaws neighbours are fluent bilingual, being English first. They can rattle in and out of what the locals are calling "franglish".

But the French kids are stuttering and tripping over English. One young lady, about 14/15 had not idea at a MacDonalds I wanted "small fries"
until I translated it.

So I see these kids future limited to Quebec, New Brunswick and/or Ottawa government jobs.

Hopefully the reverse discrimination for federal jobs will change.

But that's wishful thinking.

oink oink

Posted by: tomax at February 10, 2006 06:16 PM

---

{grammarcheck}

"What *do* these countries..."

{/grammarcheck}

Posted by: GrammarGeek at February 10, 2006 07:05 PM

---

I saw that before. I thought I fixed it already. Zut alors!

Posted by: Steve Janke at February 10, 2006 07:07 PM

---

Franco-phoney indeed. That was the first thing I thought of the first time I heard of this organization (which was, of course, after I moved to Canada, and I'm a pretty engageé American).

Posted by: Meg Q at February 10, 2006 07:11 PM

---

Why isn't there a ministry for the Commonwealth?

Our cultural, historical and political ties are much stronger with the Commonwealth countries than with la Francophonie.

Posted by: Loyalist at February 10, 2006 07:22 PM

---

So what exactly is the problem here? The man is learning the language and he is assisting someone who is fluent in the language. And what the hell is up with "the Western Province Alberta", just had to make sure everyone knew Alberta was in the West?? FU*******************

Posted by: Platty at February 10, 2006 07:51 PM

---

Good post - great point.

I heard this story early and had not checked out any of the detail - this post explains a lot.

Thanks

Posted by: Gary McHale at February 10, 2006 08:19 PM

---

Given the historic rivalry between Hapsburg Austria and France, Austria's being an "observer" in (not a member of) the Francophonie seems mere prudence.
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/foreign_policy/francophonie/member_states-en.asp

Mark
Ottawa

Posted by: Mark Collins at February 10, 2006 09:03 PM

---

Dropping out of something we trade with makes no sense.

Unilingualism is a business BIG Negative. When our neighbor to the south speaks more and more Spanish every year and your Chevy Avalanche is made in Mexico - I think thats a message. This leads directly to language limits reducing options for Quebeckers.

The ranting about languages is fine. But I draw the line at "fact, Canada's membership in an organization devoted to pushing back on the dominance of English only exacerbates the tensions we have here at home by putting the linguistic communities at odds with each other"

SOURCE PERHAPS?

The recent change of government showed there is no linguistic tension except for the over the top Language based attack ads like "we don't take orders from Calgary" from certain vested interests.

I bet Ted Menzies is about to get very good in French very fast.

Its all motivation for anyone - if you see a need for it great. If not lets have some better arguments than what you've posted.

Posted by: Floyd Low at February 10, 2006 09:11 PM

---

Unilingualism isn't a big draw back in business, as long as your language is English. Mexicans are only too happy to speak English with you, same in Germany - Italy - Spain - Switzerland - or at least try to communicate with you. The only place where its a problem is France...

French is a dead language, forcing people to learn it (at the exclusion of other languages), really does force them into a language ghetto.

As far as taking orders from Calgary, I think they'll find orders from Calgary far more 'fair' than the orders from the east have been to Calgary.

Posted by: Curtis at February 10, 2006 09:24 PM

---

Frankly, if I could manage it somehow, I'd rather my kids be bilingual English-Spanish instead of English-French. Far more opportunities I think.

Posted by: Steve Janke at February 10, 2006 09:29 PM

---

The Francophoney are nothing more than French language imperialists. Just check around and you will see just how many of the countries in which "official bilingualism" exists, the second language is French. It's pretty clear who the real cultural imperialists in the world are.

Posted by: John Luft at February 10, 2006 09:42 PM

---

Your suggestion of pulling out of the Francophonie would be a totally moronic move... unless of course you're hell bent losing the next election in Quebec and the rest of francophone Canada. Dumb.

Posted by: George in Eastern Ontario at February 10, 2006 09:43 PM

---

You'd be wrong, Janke (what else is new?). French helps you a lot more around the world than Spanish does...believe me, I know. Very few people speak Spanish as a second language. Of course, it is possible to have your children learn French and Spanish, since the two languages are very closely related, but I guess that would interfere with your little tirade about French in Canada, wouldn't it?

Whatever. I'd be immensely happy if Anglo-Saxons in the Great White North would apply themselves more diligently to speaking English, quite frankly. Why don't you bitch about that, for a change?

Posted by: Ti-Guy at February 10, 2006 09:45 PM

---

Only a fool (and the federal government) would waste his/her money and time learning french. The french are easily understood- show them some green ($$), and they're all over you. Language problem solved.

Instead, Mandarin should be taught as Canada's second language. The 21st century will belong to China- help our young'uns ahead by teaching them the lingua franca.

Posted by: Reg at February 10, 2006 09:55 PM

---

I would think Spanish would open more doors in the US and points south. I could be wrong.

Funny how we argue which language should play second banana to English.

As for the political reality in Canada, I did say that it would be a big pill to swallow to get Canada to quit the Francophonie.

Or would it? Any polling data about how many people actually care?

Posted by: Steve Janke at February 10, 2006 10:00 PM

---

Tsk, tsk. You should have spent a little more time practicing your defence while on the other side of the fence. I will say this though. Only you could dream up a defence that hinged on the fact that Albania's lack of a sizeable french speaking community is justification for this appointment. So you get an A for creativity at least.

Personally though, I would have gone with the equality of employment angle stating that a lack of a second language should not be an impediment to employment. Since there's already lots of antipathy towards bilingualism in Canada it would have been an easier sale to the unilingualist rubes.

Posted by: Robert McClelland at February 10, 2006 10:03 PM

---

French is about love - you stupid!

Posted by: george at February 10, 2006 10:04 PM

---

and Angry get some ed in history 102

Posted by: george at February 10, 2006 10:06 PM

---

Yeah, I've heard that before.

In BC:

Punjabi should be the second official language

In Alberta:

English should be the second offical language

In Saskatchewan:

Cree should be the second official language, but it's too hard, so...well...shut up.

In Manitoba, Ontario, Québec, NB, NS, PEI, where 24 million of Canada's 32 million people live:

Thank God, the other language to learn isn't as difficult as Mandarin Chinese!

Newfoundland:

God, I hate dis country, sometimes bye.

Posted by: Ti-Guy at February 10, 2006 10:08 PM

---

I would think Spanish would open more doors in the US and points south. I could be wrong.

You're mostly wrong. The entire world isn't "the US and points south", is it? In fact when heading south, you really don't need Spanish until you hit Mexico and points further south, and you know that the future of Western economic prosperity is not really pointing to Latin America, is it? But, in any case, most South Americans would rather speak French than English, and, in the case of Brazilians (who don't speak Spanish) actively prefer it.

You are resolute in downplaying the status of French as an important language in the world, and you are doing it on the basis of no knowledge of the issue, whatsovever.

Posted by: Ti-Guy at February 10, 2006 10:21 PM

---

Hey, I'm willing to be corrected on that point -- I admit my knowledge is second-hand at best. It just seems that in the US, anyway, Spanish is the defacto second language.

I do know Brazil is not Spanish-speaking.

I didn't know people in South America would rather speak French to Spanish (or Portugese). Got a reference for it?

Of course, I could have been misled by the fact that no major South American country is a member of the Francophonie. Strange for a continent where French is so popular.

Posted by: Steve Janke at February 10, 2006 10:31 PM

---

do not forget europe steve

Posted by: george at February 10, 2006 10:38 PM

---

Ti-Guy

For the Newfie speak, you got its wrong. Every verb has an "s" at the end

God, I hates dis country, sometimes bye

Posted by: tomax at February 10, 2006 10:45 PM

---

Spanish, like French, is a language of colonialism, thus is spoken all over the world. Only they're nicer. (now, anyway)

I just want to have a choice. If they keep saying bilingualism is important fine. Why can't Albertan's of Polish/Ukrainian or German extraction learn the language of their ancestors instead?

Why should we let the government restrict educational choices like this? Wouldn't it be more valuable to society to have a linguisticly diverse population? -As long as english is a common first language - (if we buy the premise of bilingualism, being a key to economic opportunity)

Posted by: Curtis at February 10, 2006 10:55 PM

---

Perhaps stats back up Steve over the Ti-Guy after all.

Here is a year 2000 list of the number of people per native language

http://anthro.palomar.edu/language/language_1.htm

1. Mandarin Chinese 874,000,000
2. Hindi (India) 366,000,000
3. English 341,000,000 104
4. Spanish 322-358,000,000
5. Bengali 207,000,000
6. Portuguese 176,000,000
7. Russian 167,000,000
8. Japanese 125,000,000
9. German (standard) 100,000,000
10. Korean 78,000,000
11. French 77,000,000

Ti-Guy, pehaps you should engage in some Koren or Portuguese over French, strictly by the numbers, of course.

Posted by: Pete at February 10, 2006 10:56 PM

---

Of course, I could have been misled by the fact that no major South American country is a member of the Francophonie. Strange for a continent where French is so popular.

French Guiana Isnt in the Franko-phoney organization?

Posted by: Curtis at February 10, 2006 10:58 PM

---

speak French to any girl .......and she is in heaven.
try just try

Posted by: george at February 10, 2006 11:13 PM

---

French Guiana is in. So is Dominica, Haiti, Saint Lucia, Martinique, and Guadeloupe. That's it. If French is the prefered second language of Brazil, Venezuela, or Argentina, it didn't earn them a seat at the Francophonie.

Languages spoken in order of popularity:
Brazil - Portugese, Spanish, English, French.
Venezuela - Spanish, numerous indigenous dialects
Argentina - Spanish, English, Italian, German, French

Posted by: Steve Janke at February 10, 2006 11:31 PM

---

what about girls? or that only boys blog?

Posted by: george at February 11, 2006 12:03 AM

---

I could have been misled by the fact that no major South American country is a member of the Francophonie.

Ok, so someone corrects you, you admit you don't know anything, and then you move on to another statement that in all likelyhood, is not very accurate.

Again, I repeat:

"You are resolute in downplaying the status of French as an important language in the world, and you are doing it on the basis of no knowledge of the issue, whatsovever."

Because you, quite frankly, are a bigot.

Posted by: Ti-Guy at February 11, 2006 12:35 AM

---

Since you are so wise and learned in the ways of the French, Ti-Guy, perhaps you can answer a few questions for the poor benighted bigots who read and enjoy Steve's blog. Perhaps by engaging in dialogue, you can enlighten instead of offending.

Why does Quebec want nothing to do with official bilingualism... while it gets crammed down the throats of the rest of Canada?

Do you think the dichotomy of this situation might cause some animosity within as well as outside of Quebec? What kind of agenda would benefit most from encouraging animosity and intolerance?

Will a day come when Quebec embraces bilingualism? If not, why not?

Why does French need to be protected so zealously? What could possibly threaten a language which, from your perspective, is so important?

Why should the majority of Canadians be asked to support French culture with our tax dollars while other cultures manage to maintain their own languages and traditions without the mollycoddling which Quebec requires?

Posted by: Mac at February 11, 2006 01:44 AM

---

Cool. Bigot. Gotta love that one. Can an English Canadian, oppose bilingualism, without being called names?

How about "Francophobe"? Aren't they all homos anyway? I mean really, whats with all that kissing?

I think Ignorance, isn't not knowing, I think Ignorance, is being unwilling to stand corrected.

Ti-Guy, the second language in Alberta is Cantonese, about 9% speak it as a first or exclusive language. Only about 4% speak french as a first or exclusive language. (those figures are from a while ago, what with welfare reform, the french figures, are probably much lower now.)

Posted by: Curtis at February 11, 2006 02:00 AM

---

"You're mostly wrong. The entire world isn't "the US and points south", is it? In fact when heading south, you really don't need Spanish until you hit Mexico and points further south, and you know that the future of Western economic prosperity is not really pointing to Latin America, is it? But, in any case, most South Americans would rather speak French than English, and, in the case of Brazilians (who don't speak Spanish) actively prefer it."

As you say, You're mostly wrong. I guess you haven't been to Texas, New Mexico, Nevada or California lately. Mexicans are over running these states. In some cities, Spanish isn't the second language anymore. Its first. Spanish is the fastest growing language in America, and Latino, it the fastest growing ethnic group.

Latin and South Americas have a brilliant future as trading partners. If you bought a TV lately, it was most likely made in Mexico. Costa Rica is getting big in semiconductors. (Intel has a huge factory there) Brazil was a contender to be the next superpower, before China become fashionable, and is still a dark horse contender.

As trading partners, the Spanish speaking bits of the world are ahead of the french bits. Can you name a manufactured product that you've purchased from a french language nation? (other than French whine - that's too easy)

Posted by: Curtis at February 11, 2006 02:30 AM

---

Okdokie found a list of Canada's trading partners. (exports) Guess who's #1? Ya, our good friend, the USA...

1.... USA
2.... UK
3.... China
4.... Mexico
5.... Germany
6.... France
7.... S Korea
8.... Belgium
9.... Netherlands
10... Italy
11... Australia
12... Norway
13... Hong Kong
14... Taiwan
15... Spain
16... Brazil
17... India
18... Indonesia
19... Switzerland
20... Singapore

Where are all these French countries? they're way way way down the list.

Haiti, for example bought $20 million from us. Which is slightly ahead of Gibraltar, which bought $18 million and change from us. (keep in mind, Gibraltar, has a population of 30 000 people)

So we have to conclude, that there are great economic benefits to learning French. Good luck with that.

Posted by: Curtis at February 11, 2006 03:03 AM

---

Oooops Missed a line...

#2 is Japan... Interesting to note, that 93% of our exports, are to the top 10 nations...By the time we get down to #5 (Mexico) where into fractions of a percentile. 00.7% of our exports go to Mexico...

Posted by: Curtis at February 11, 2006 03:10 AM

---

Come with me boys and girls and let`s visit Mademoiselle from Armentieres! :) --- see the link on my name.

PS: The view is lovely on the beach at Dieppe on an oppressively hot day in summer.

Posted by: Floyd Low at February 11, 2006 06:13 AM

---

>>>and Angry get some ed in history 102

There it is again. George, would you care to point out the egregious historical error in this post? One that would require remedial History 102.

Posted by: CERDIP at February 11, 2006 08:55 AM

---

I think appointing an english speaking westerner to this position is another example of PMSH playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers. Sure it looks crazy on its face but give it 6 to 10 months when Mr Menzies is more fluent en francaise. He will serve as a wonderful example of how Canada can work for Quebecers. This will help drive a stake through the heart of the BQ and ensure a majority next time.

Posted by: Clayton at February 11, 2006 09:14 AM

---

Ti-Guy must never have been south of Canada or comes from Quebec. The statement that "most south americans would rather speak French than English" is a work of fiction.
When in Mexico recently I was told by a teacher at a language school, where a number of Quebec students were attending, that they said that French is the dominate language in Canada. They didn't know that she had spent 5 years in New York State and knew this to be a crock of s***

Posted by: alonzo at February 11, 2006 09:17 AM

---

I'm all for french immersion. Push them all off the east coast if they continue this crazy whining

Posted by: bartinsky at February 11, 2006 09:46 AM

---

"Only a fool (and the federal government) would waste his/her money and time learning french".... or possibly paying millions to translate thousands of government website pages into other languages like URDU.

DFAIT website is currently conducting a questionnaire to improve their website.

One of the questions relates to the language preference, other than English or French, for accessing the website:

Arabic
Chinese
Dutch
German
Hindi
Italian
Japanese
Portuguese
Punjabi
Russian
Spanish
Urdu

http://www.lcnd.ca/phase5/DFAIT05/Language.asp?strLanguage=EN&site=32&source=http%3A//www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/canada-europa/mundi/menu-en.asp

Meanwhile, the Ontario Ministry of Labour has determined that it needs to print it Employment Standards brochures in a minimum of 20 other languages in addition to English & French:

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/index_languages.html

Posted by: JM at February 11, 2006 10:00 AM

---

Feels good to bash the francophones/Quebeckers, eh ?

I'm from Rimouski, Quebec. Look on a map : it's about as francophone as it can be. And yet, I understand Small fries, or this blog, and I'm currently pursuing my studies in english. Why ? Because, believe it or not, the english learning programs are quite good in La belle province. To complete high school, we have to be at least partially fluent in english, and a lot of people are completely bilingual by the time the finish their secondaire 5 (something like your 12th grade, I guess). With the new laws, we start to learn english in 1st grade - as soon as we learn to read/write. There's exchanges all over the place with other provinces, and those are widely used.

According to Wikipedia (so excuse me if my numbers are wrong), 18 % of the population of Canada claims to speak both english and french; amongst native french speakers in Quebec, that number rise to 34 %, almost the double. Concordia University, in Montreal, has one student out of 5 who is francophone, and I think the numbers are similar for McGill. The last to embrace bilinguism, you said ?

So, please, stop you're oh-I-once-knew-a-french-speaking-person-who-did-that-and-that-and-oh-my-god-how-can-they-be-so-dumb whining.

Posted by: Christopher at February 11, 2006 11:04 AM

---

I thought a kid's parents had to be English speaking, for their kid to have the chance at an English education. Has that changed? I haven't heard about it.

Ive known a few quebecers in my time, most spoke passable English, most where younger. Had to laugh at the time of the first referendum, one of the young fellers, was sad that the referendum failed. "I said that's probably a good thing for you." He didn't understand why, I explained to him, that if it had passed he'd be a foreigner, and wouldn't be allowed to work in Canada. The separatists seem to think they can have it both ways, be independent of Canada, and yet con.tinue to have the benefits of being Canadian.

If a referendum should come up again, I wonder if the federal government should negotiate the deal before the vote. So that quebecers have a very clear understanding on what they're voting on.
Also, shouldn't a referendum be national? Its not just the future of Quebec being decided but Canada's as well.

Cant say "cont.inue to" (no .)?

Posted by: Curtis at February 11, 2006 12:18 PM

---

Christopher, since Ti-Guy has chosen not to answer my questions, feel free to do so on his behalf!

Sorry to spoil your little rant but I'm not depending on secondhand knowledge. I used to live in Montreal and I'm one of that 18% who are bilingual (although my French is pretty rusty these days) and although I'm not originally from Quebec, I know Canadian politics well enough to say Quebec is unilingual French.

The fact that a large number of the residents of Quebec are bilingual has nothing to do with it as this is a political decision... like the decision to have referendum after referendum.

Posted by: Mac at February 11, 2006 01:03 PM

---

Christopher, since Ti-Guy has chosen not to answer my questions, feel free to do so on his behalf!

Sorry to spoil your little rant but I'm not depending on secondhand knowledge. I used to live in Montreal and I'm one of that 18% who are bilingual (although my French is pretty rusty these days) and although I'm not originally from Quebec, I know Canadian politics well enough to say Quebec is unilingual French.

The fact that a large number of the residents of Quebec are bilingual has nothing to do with it as this is a political decision... like the decision to have referendum after referendum.

Posted by: Mac at February 11, 2006 01:03 PM

---

Christopher: Please accpet my apology if I am wrong, because I guess I am obviously ignorant to what point you are making - French kids being partially fluent in English isn't the same as being able to hold a conversation in English or conduct business outside of 'la belle province'.

Plus having been in the Air Force, I saw how Quebecois got promoted faster than Anglais types - forget about skill levels - so again these fellows are actually being screwed indirectly, let alone those who they command under them.

Back in the 70's people would refuse to tell me which bus goes to Mt. Royal if I asked in English and when I asked in broken French I got this disgusted look. So yes, attitude has changed, but ignorance not.

I concur with Curtis. I have a few friends in the Chicoutimi area and were also disappointed they "lost" (even with ballot tampering spoiling "Non" ballots because the "X" wasn't exactly in the middle of the check box, tells me something). Funny how no one went to jail over that.

They thought they could stay inside Canada, use Canadian currency, Armed Forces, deal with Ontario as usual and so on. Not sure if they were mislead or blissfully ignorant.

However, I have noticed a "tolerance" towards my family (les anglais) this time around visiting Montreal and surrounding areas. Like I said, I feel for the youth - with both French parents, their English is broken.

So, when did this all change Christopher? I believe one's children had to go to a French school if both (or some weird formula) were of French origin - whereas if both parents were "English" they could go to an English school. Same with immigrants, ie: Jamaicans, automatically go to French schools, no choice.

Oh, speaking of schools, Rosemount, Riverdale and other "ENGLISH" schools don't get the same amount of grants and funding as "FRENCH" schools. I know this first hand, but politics aren't involved in this right?

Also, we won't get into signage laws right?

If this helps you know I'm not anti-french...I for one am jealous of my in-laws neighbour English kids who rattle in and out of French and English (Franglish) without batting an eye.

Unfortunately French was shoved down my throat growing up in Vancouver in the 70's and that put a permanent distaste for anything French in my life.

Even when we visit Paris, you want to talk about ignorant people.

I think every culture has something to offer, but not when it is made a law.

cheers
tom

Posted by: tomax at February 11, 2006 01:04 PM

---

You guys are flaming each other to no good end. See this Stats Canada link http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/products/analytic/companion/lang/bilingual.cfm#increase

Nationally, 43.4% of francophones reported that they were bilingual, compared with 9.0% of anglophones.

Within Quebec, the growth in the bilingualism rate from 1996 to 2001 was even greater than in the previous five-year period. In 2001, two out of every five individuals (40.8%) reported that they were bilingual, compared with 37.8% in 1996 and 35.4% in 1991.

In Quebec, anglophones had a very high rate of bilingualism in all age groups. Between 1996 and 2001, the bilingualism rate for the anglophone group as a whole rose from 61.7% in 1996 to 66.1% in 2001.

In Sum - Being bilingual is an option - why bore us if you choose not to be - you`re only wasting your time.

Posted by: Floyd Low at February 11, 2006 04:56 PM

---

A few years ago (1963) I attended a course put on by the Federal Government. There were 4 young people from Quebec on this course. It was a 6 week course and mid-way through one of the young men asked why the language of the course could not be in French as well as English. None of the instructors were bi-lingual. I spoke to the young man during a coffee break and he said he was disturbed about the instruction. I found it interesting that he wasn't upset with the course officials but blamed his parents, his church and Quebec politicians for not making proper language instruction available for him so that he could compete across Canada.

Posted by: alonzo at February 11, 2006 06:13 PM

---

Floyd: Thanks for the stats, but not sure how that fits into the Quebec picture, as in which side are you supporting?

I look at it and say "see, the English are more bilingual than the French in Quebec".

- francophones 37.8% in 1996 and 35.4% in 1991
- anglophones 61.7% in 1996 to 66.1% in 2001.
Even worse, with nationally 43.4% of francophones and 9.0% of anglophones - just goes to show this is a failed experiment.

The literal billions and billions and billions wasted on this program is Canada's greatest scourge, possibly tied or behind Indian Affairs spending.

Besides, bilinugalism shouldn't just mean French/English. What about German, Ukrainian, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, etc.

You'd think Canada being a "peacekeeper" country would want to learn other languages. What a feather that would be in our hat.

Sad.

cheers
tom

Posted by: tomax at February 11, 2006 10:50 PM

---

Floyd the problem with quoting stats is you need to be honest with reporting it, else you become another statshound twisting it the way you want.

I just looked at the link and noticed something very inportant you left out for some reason regarding francophones...

"...the rate peaked in the age groups 20 to 24"

"...41.5% of francophones aged 15 to 19", which means more than half aren't bilingual.

----------------------
Here's the whole paragraph:
The bilingualism rate among francophones climbed from 33.7% in 1996 to 36.6% in 2001. Since many francophones learn English once they have completed their full time schooling, the rate peaked in the age groups 20 to 24 (53.6%) and 25 to 29 (53.7%).

In addition, the rate increased substantially in every age group. In 2001, for example, 41.5% of francophones aged 15 to 19 reported they were bilingual, compared with 35.3% in 1996.

Posted by: tomax at February 11, 2006 10:57 PM

---

I forgot to add the second group:
the rate peaked in the age groups 20 to 24 (53.6%) and 25 to 29 (53.7%).

Could this "peak" have resulted from maybe they suddenly have to find a job, at MacDonalds, as "voulez-vous de grand frit avec cet ordre" doesn't cut it...

"non, je veux petit frit s'il vous plaît"

Posted by: tomax at February 11, 2006 11:05 PM

---

While in Quebec a few years aggo, I had problems because I knew no French [thank God for my mimes] to purchase something.

I mentioned this to a fellow clown and he/she gave me this advice: "Pretend you are an American and speak with a southern accent." I tried this, guess what? Everybody spoke English - at least enough to do basic shopping. [It did not work at one gas station though - they saw my licance plate from out of prov.]

I think they are afraid of the "language police" and if you are a Canadian you HAVE to speak french in Canada - but Americans are ok to speak english to for a sale.

Curtis does have a great idea:

"If a referendum should come up again, I wonder if the federal government should negotiate the deal BEFORE THE VOTE. So that quebecers have a very clear understanding on what they're voting on.

Also, shouldn't a referendum be national? Its not just the future of Quebec being decided but Canada's as well."

I have never heard of this idea before. I think it is great, can you imagine if the seperatest knew in advance what they were voting for? What they would NOT get from the rest of Canada. All those Federal Govt. jobs will be lost. All the head offices that are for Canadian companies lost. Something worth thinking about.

Posted by: Clown Party of Canada at February 11, 2006 11:07 PM

---

Ref Stats

I agree - stats are part of lies, damn lies and statistics.

The goal is worthy. At same time its just "official bilingualism" under this program.

I guess my point - and the last time I`ll take up Steve`s space on this topic (excellent site Steve by the way) is - its a choice. Everyone chooses for their own reasons and there are much bigger fish to fry - is the Lieberal fish smell now fading?

Thanks to all commentators! :)

Posted by: Floyd Low at February 12, 2006 04:19 AM

---

Yes, I agree, it is a choice, and should have been kept that way...

The difference Floyd is this program really isn't a choice with our hard earned tax dollars.

Try to bit for a goverment contract and see how far your choice gets.

Try to be a English sounding company "Eaton's" and see how far you get before the language police are on your case.

(My wife worked at Eaton's in Montreal, the very cash register that got blown up by the FLQ. She had just gone home when a pipe bomb blew it up. )

Posted by: tomax at February 12, 2006 12:25 PM

---

The goal is worthy?

Bilingualism is huge boondongle. It costs the federal government billions, not just in the direct costs of the program, but every manual, document, sign and pamphlet has to be written and printed twice.

I think the goal of bilingualism should be to promote English as a second language, to non English speaking people. Lets do a reality check, English is preferred language of international business, science, air traffic control, etc etc... Giving everyone access to the language would brighten their economic future.

Posted by: Curtis at February 12, 2006 08:33 PM

---

I like reality checks! Try this:

Ottawa is the centre of our federal public service. That public service works for all Canadians, not English-speaking Canadians or French-speaking Canadians, ALL Canadians. Everyone with me so far?

In order to work for the public service in Ottawa, you must speak one of the official languages but during the Chretien reign, the public service was purged of all unilingual English speaking public servants. They were replaced by pubic servants who were bilingual and the preference was given to biligual Francophones. Unilingual Francophones were given English Immersion lessons.

In order to bid on many of the contracts offered for services to the government departments, it is considered essential to have the bid presented in both official languages and the bidder must also be bilingual.

My point? Unilingual Anglophones are discriminated against at all levels, despite the fact that the majority of the population are Anglophones. The tail wags the dog.

Ti-Guy and Christopher, I take your continued silence to mean you don't want to answer my questions.

Posted by: Mac at February 12, 2006 09:39 PM

---