What would Ed Broadbent do?

Posted by: DonS at January 20, 2006 11:19 AM

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Are you missing something?
like a sound mind?

Posted by: george at January 20, 2006 11:22 AM

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There is zero chance the combined Lib/NDP seat count will be more than the Tories.

Zero chance.

Go to the Hill-Knowlton seat predictor and punch in some numbers. Even with a 35-34-16 split, the CPC still gets more seats than Lib/NDP combined.

The CPC has to fall below the popular Liberal vote for your scenario to happen. Not going to happen.

Posted by: JL at January 20, 2006 11:32 AM

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This possibility has just been mentioned on the Lowell Green show

Posted by: pissedoff at January 20, 2006 11:33 AM

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We saw this years ago in Ontario with the Peterson Liberals and the Rae NDP.

Posted by: pgs at January 20, 2006 11:38 AM

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Angry--I agree that the NDP/Lib coalition would over-ride the wishes of the people. That was the reason for the appointment of the new GG--pure political lifesaving--she will allow her appointer to do whatever he wants. The Libs prepared very well for this eventuality. They might be an abhorrant bunch but they know how to play the system.
Martin has made it very plain over this election that he doesn't give a damn what Alberta thinks--he doesn't have to worry--there are not enough seats there to make a difference in the outcome of the election.
I can see Quebec saying enough is enough too--Martin has again done a remarkable job of divide and conquer--it has worked for the Libs for the last 13 years--what has changed this time. If Ontario wants the Liberals the country will have the Liberals--even the GG will play to the power base.
Time to break out the blue scarves?

Posted by: George at January 20, 2006 11:39 AM

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I am thoroughly convinced Paul Martin will do anything to stay in power. He is now on a rant about the "most extreme right-wing agenda in the history of Canada". Unfortunately, most of the electorate only vote on the latest sound-bite within the last 24 hours. All the polls indicate this to be a certainty.

I have been vilified for the past 4 elections as being "pro-american, extreme right-wing, out of touch with 'Canadian values', and downright dangerous".

Can we as an electorate hold the speaker of these statements to account? Why, in any other time (eg. before 1970), would this be considered hate propaganda, but today is considered 'normal'?

Nothing Paul Martin does this coming week-end will surprise me. He will do or say anything to maintain power.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely!"

Posted by: Walter at January 20, 2006 11:40 AM

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AdScam Chretien/Martin has swallowed the chalice of Kool-Aid. >>>>

The Poisoned Chalice
17 January 2006, 13h32

While it may have been inevitable, and even late in coming, the event itself was no less momentous for me. This morning, I received my first "Leadership Telephone Call" (TM).

With less than a week left in the election campaign, potential leadership candidates and their surrogates are organising in earnest. At the risk of sounding uncharitable, the call I received came from an MP whose main contribution to a leadership contest would be to increase the number of candidates in, rather than the quality of, the field. Nevertheless, this is part of a trend that bodes ill for the Liberal Party.

One of Paul Martin's lasting contributions to the Party's culture is the legitimisation of regicide. The Party had previously ousted ailing leaders, but had never shown the door to a sitting Prime Minister, a leader who still carried the democratic imprimatur of the national population. In the short term, Paul's strategy was successful in crowning him, but in the long term, "we but teach / Bloody instructions, which, being taught, return / To plague the inventor; this even-handed justice / Commends the ingredients of our poisoned chalice / To our own lips".

My greatest fear for the Liberal Party is, however, not the perpetuation of internecine warfare. It is the instinct of organisers that the answer to one fallen messiah is the installation of a new one.

If there is no fundamental reform to and rejuvenation of the Liberal Party itself, then no matter how talented or well-intentioned the next leader may be, that person will suffer the same fate as Paul Martin.

In a democracy, we never receive the government or the Party we deserve. We only receive the government and the Party we demand and that we help to create. The next Liberal leader will only succeed if we renew our Party, and rebuild it upon liberal-democratic ideals rather than a hollow cult of personality or the empty pursuit of power for its own sake.

The Liberal Party must change itself, not just exchange its leader. >>
http://www.maharaj.org/blog.shtml

Posted by: maz2 at January 20, 2006 11:43 AM

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Yep ol Bucky is so power drunk he can't see the damage an NDP-liberal coalition could do to boost separatism.

If thats the outcome, watch as Harper steps down and heads to Alberta to take up provincial politics, Charet gets his arse handed to him at the next provincial election, and Martin stays PM but loses the country.

Posted by: gimbol at January 20, 2006 11:43 AM

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Look folks yes the combinded Liberal NDP thing could happen but I think there is only a remote chance that it would take place. Rather than spend energy on worry it would be more productive to spend energies on getting out the vote on Monday.

Posted by: Peter at January 20, 2006 11:49 AM

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JL is right - this could happen in theory but there is no way that Lib+NDP > CPC; you are forgetting the Bloc factor which takes ~60 seats out of play.

Posted by: fjm at January 20, 2006 12:02 PM

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Yes I do in fact believe that this is where these two wretches want to take us. We have seen Jack Layton during the national debates state that his differences with the consevatives are too great to allow him to work with the Conservatives and only yesterday we saw Paul Martin tell the world that NDP values are Liberal values(news to most Liberal supporters, I'm sure) It makes you wonder where the journalists are on this tour.
Anyway it fits, I suspect there have been talks between two birdbrains on exactly this issue. Hold on to your hats

Posted by: crowbar at January 20, 2006 12:07 PM

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Not only that, but consider who the Governor-General is. To her, "conservative" equals "fascist." She'd be more than happy to oblige a coalition to keep the Tories out of power. I think she'd consider it to be her duty, in fact, to save the country.

Posted by: Rosemarie at January 20, 2006 12:07 PM

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I agree with Peter
It's important not to let the keyboards get carried away with scribes containing this fear mongering
Mr. Harper and his team can hold their own.
On another note..
During my early morning dog walk today I noticed Conservative lawn signs kicked over in my neighbourhood but not of the other two parties.
My riding is Parkdale/Highpark.
Just a small FYI

Posted by: banjotom at January 20, 2006 12:10 PM

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If the Liberal's regain power, by any means, there will be no waiting for the next election to'take another shot'. Alberta and Quebec will not be able to distance themselves fast enough from those who are so easily duped by this Liberal party.

Posted by: Platty at January 20, 2006 12:23 PM

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"...hope that the plurality of voters who have seen their election win snatched away by the Liberal Party clinging to power and the NDP facilitating it will become furious, especially in Quebec and Alberta."

How much good would that do? Would that mean that the Liberals and NDP would lose all the seats that they hold in Alberta and Quebec? All 23 of them?

Posted by: Ed Minchau at January 20, 2006 12:23 PM

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I have designed an election predictor, and based on a recent SES poll, the House would look like this: Conservatives 147, Grits 77, NDP 23, Bloc 61.
There is not a chance that the Conservatives fall here. The Bloc will take at least 60 seats out of play; that leaves 248. The Conservatives would have to be pushed down into the low 120s for there to be a successful NDP/Lib alliance, and that just doesn't look likely at the moment.
I'll post a new prediction when we get the new SES poll this afternoon.

Posted by: Michael Cowett at January 20, 2006 12:40 PM

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Don't be overconfident, people.

It's a little early to count seats.

Posted by: Toronto Tory at January 20, 2006 12:48 PM

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I don't think so.

The NDP feels betrayed, remember their campaign song? "I Wont be fooled again" the only way the liberals get NDP support again, is to give away cabinet seats... Finance Minister Jack? (Goody isn't going to be re-elected anyhow)

I cant see Stephen Harper stepping down for any reason. If this where to happen Harper would play the mugging victim and be jumping up & down, about the "democratic deficit".

Also keep in mind, that there is no way that lib + NDP >= CPC + BQ. If Big Paulie can make a deal that Jack can't refuse... Iam sure Harper can come to a rational understanding with the BQ. (This maybe fun, just to see PMPM's conniption)

Posted by: Curtis at January 20, 2006 12:53 PM

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If the Liberals are so low in morals, even lower than they are now (if that is even possible after all that they have done) then the election after this one will complelely wipe the Liberals out. Consider. If the Liberals try to pull this stunt, Harper will have all the cards to say that the Liberals are not listening to the will of the electorate. He will have been proven right about "the Liberals lust for power at all costs", "they don't want you to make the Liberals accountable", etc. A conservative minority, which would have been Harper's ultimate test towards a potential future majority, would have been thwarted. If Martin tries this, he is toast.

Posted by: Dennis LeDrew at January 20, 2006 12:56 PM

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You know the most ominous thing about western separation? DND moved all of the Leopards save 10 or 20 to CFB Wainwright (Alberta) over a year ago. Is it a coincidence or something far more sinister?

Posted by: the bear at January 20, 2006 01:07 PM

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Yes The Bear. And the Americans moved Area 51 to Alberta too. The Americans will use their Klingon allies to crush all the CPC's Liberal enemies here in Canada in the event of a Liberal/NDP coaltion. Is it a coincidence or something far more sinister?

Posted by: Dennis LeDrew at January 20, 2006 01:20 PM

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If a senario like this happened you can bet there will be 2 referendum votes in the next few years.

Quebec 51% + yes to separate
Alberta 75% + yes to separate

Posted by: Sierra at January 20, 2006 01:28 PM

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Fly in the ointment time Angry.

There are substantial differences from the Ontario example.

First off, Frank Miller, the Tory leader was allowed to remain premier (he had the most seats after all) after the vote. The LG, JB Aird, only asked the LO to step up after the Miller gov't fell on a confidence motion. Miller asked for another election and Aird said no. Of course, by that time the Lib/NDP agreement was well-known.

Secondly, and more importantly, the Peterson Liberals and the Rae Dippers had a majority with their combined totals, even though they were in 2nd and 3rd spots after the vote. In your scenario, even if the combined Crook/Commie numbers exceeded the Tory total, they still would not have a working gov't. They would need the support of the Bloc to make it work.

Now, if Martin tried to cobble together a Crook/Traitor coalition, or a Crook/Commie/Traitor coalition, the GG might be prepared to consider it, but I have this feeling that more than a few of his surviving backbenchers might not be willing to play that game. The Volpe/Valeri/Brison faction would be all for it (after what is one more contortion after everything they have been through) but I suspect the Goodale/Commuzzi/McKay Liberals might just decide to pull a Kilgour if faced with being nice to Duceppe and his happy band of homewreckers. After all, it's not like they could ever hope to run for office ever again.

I'm just sayiing...

Posted by: herringchoker at January 20, 2006 01:52 PM

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Over my dead body! Anyway you slice it if P.M. is not standing in the pogey office by mid-night Jan.24th, there will be a riot here in the land of the alienated, started by moi! Liberals & NDP be warned.

Posted by: Alberta money tree at January 20, 2006 02:00 PM

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...who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of Liberals...

Don't count that move out, remember this is the same gang that denied the original vote of confidence...

cheers
tom

Posted by: tomax7 at January 20, 2006 02:24 PM

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Dennis, we just don't know. The Klingons aren't saying. I am not making this up.

Posted by: Ed Minchau at January 20, 2006 02:31 PM

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I agree with Patty.

As we all know, nothing is over until it is over...and while acknowledging that prudence is a cherished Canadian value....perhaps we could, (as a contingency plan only, mind you)...put together a Plan "B"...just in case....the very worst, nightmare scenario unfolds....on Jan 23rd.

and...Perhaps Buzz likes Apples....

Let's suppose that the people of the High Plains (Nation), who are described as having "principles ... that don't sit well with the rest of Canada", (you know...like honesty, prudence, tolerance, financially responsible, tax adverse, hard working, charitable, down to earth, environmentally sensitive, (we do...produce more wind generated electricity than any other province in the Confederation), not to mention...we’re very, very, very slow to anger... were to... you know.... sort of….spontaneously ... begin a boycott of Canadian made cars and trucks....

Think about that...you wouldn't have to register a vote, respond to an opinion poll, hold a public debate, there would be no imposed time limit, there would be no political interference or lobbyists bothering you, you wouldn't have to talk about it with friends (if you didn't want to), the government(s) couldn’t force you to not do it…or make you register for it, or charge you a fee…you wouldn’t have to buy a membership, you wouldn’t need to blog anyone, you can remain completely anonymous, and no politician could call you names (at least not individually!)

Think of the benefits…you would be making a solid contribution to the reduction of the burgeoning Canadian trade deficit, you’d help Canada reduce its emissions from those nasty polluting auto and steel factories in Ontario, while contributing to countries who have already signed onto the Kyoto accord…like Germany, France, Japan. India, China…opps…sorry about those last two…all those countries could then use that money to reduce their pollution indexes…the country wouldn’t need as many government funded/run/sponsored day cares spaces any more because there would be many more caregivers who wouldn’t have to go to work everyday in those smelly polluting factories…. Ontario wouldn’t need new electrical generation capacity so they wouldn’t have to build any more of those nasty coal fired generating stations. There are a lot of other benefits…to numerous to mention here…I bet you could come up with some great ones!...

WOW...I wonder....I wonder how Buzz would like them Apples....

Posted by: HMS Enterprise at January 20, 2006 02:34 PM

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Or we could legalize pot.

Then the Americans would close the boarder (have customs officials inspect every truck & crate entering the US)... The auto parts plants couldn't easily ship into the US anymore... The Americans shift auto parts production to Mexico... (cheaper labour & lower taxes too)

Ontario would be left sucking wind...

Posted by: Curtis at January 20, 2006 02:48 PM

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Hey Dennis - it's get's even funnier the tanks are in Alberta but the bullets are in Quebec. Very confusing!

Posted by: the bear at January 20, 2006 02:55 PM

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the bear - psst..."shells"...and not missles either ;-)

Where did I read also that St Hubert was storing tanks, got me wondering if Quebec was up to something.

Posted by: tomax at January 20, 2006 03:24 PM

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Could it happen?

Yes. Will it?

I doubt it.

How could Jack Layton agree to something like that?

It's been Jack who's been distancing himself from the Liberals, indicating he wants nothing to do with them while Martin has been the one that NDP voters are "progressive" and do share values with the Liberal Party.

Layton would lose all credibility and respect should he do such a thing, getting into bed with the Liberals ... again.

What would Layton say to justify it? That Liberal and NDP voters share common values? That's exactly what he's been arguing against throughout this campaign.

So will it happen? I doubt it.

But will Martin attempt it? You bet!

It's one thing to have the Liberals win the most votes and seats as they did in the last election, which gave them the right to govern ... it's another thing for Jack to allow them to govern when the Conservatives have won the most.

Posted by: Pete at January 20, 2006 05:16 PM

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Monday, January 23, 2006 will be just filled with surprising news for all Canadians; the news of loss of election for those, who call themsleves the Liberals, but they are commiting all sort of deception, lies and political shenanigan.

Earlier in the week, I had predicted the Liberals, who are responsible to the expansion of poverty, slums, gangs, slavery and lawlessness in Canada will not win this election.
This issue is too important, why Prime Minister Paul Martin and his Liberals are choosing demagogy and ostentation instead of being honest with people.

The academic immigrants in Canada are saying if Canada is a constitutional monarchy and a Commonwealth Realm with a federal system of parliamentary government, why Chairman of Canadian Steamship Lines, whose secrets for buying of CSL with over $ 160 millions loans from the Royal Bank of Canada are unknown, has been able with his formers employees like David Herle,Terrie O'Leary, Tim Murphy, Ruth Thorkelson and others violate the laws of this country?

What does it mean we say Canada has the strong democratic traditions, when Paul Martin and Liberals are sending thousands scientists and acadmic immigrants into the torture's chambers of GULAG of poverty, unemployment, slavery, humiliation and the gradual deaths?

The scientists from immigrants are emphasizing if many of the Canada's legislative practices derive from the unwritten practices of and precedents set by the United Kingdom's Westminster parliament, why in Canada we have a dictator like Paul Martin, who gives no values to MPs of the House of Commons; why he expects MPs must be the toiletpapers-servicemen in the washrooms of the PMO in the Wellington Street in Ottawa; why he expects Ministers must be the agents for his wills; why Paul Martin and the Liberals are buying some businessmen from every communities and ethnicities and give them some important jobs so that they can collet votes for the Liberals; why the most of the governmental jobs are given by the patronage system for their friends and loyalists and are deporting scientists to GULAG?


As a scientist with a PhD degree in the biomedical sciences from Germany, I would like to say if party discipline in Canada is strong and authorities are claiming even it is stronger than in the United Kingdom, why the Liberal party of Canada is the mother of all sorts of corruptions, ostenation, deception, demagogy and GULAG's character?

If the Liberal Party claims that more of the votes in the elections are considered confidence votes, why so many political games and accusations to other leaders from Paul Martin and his Liberals?


The academic immigrants know the political system under which Canada operates, is known as the Westminster system, was enshrined by the British Parliament in the Constitution Act, 1867 (also known as the British North America Act), but these academic immigrants don't understand what system is when the Liberal Party of Canada and Paul Martin have made the House of Commons as the place for gaining more shares from the national budget for their influenetial and friendly firms in Toronto's Bay Street and other major cities.


We as academic immigrants know that in 1931 the British Parliament passed the Statute of Westminster giving legal recognition to the autonomy of Canada and other dominions, but we don't know when the British Parliament has passed the GULAG's laws for the expansion of poverty, slavery, deprivation and the gradual deaths for the academic immigrants in Canada.


I know that Canada's constitution on that times required the approval of the British Parliament; my question is: Does Paul Martin and his Liberals got the apporoval of GULAG of poverty and discriminatory measures from the BRITISH Parliament? or they are expanding GULAG because of the profits of the big corporations in TORONTO's Bay Street?

As a scientist with a PhD degree in the biomedical sciences from Germany and the recognition in Canada, after more than 2 years and thousands applications for employment to all institutions, to MPs, To Ministers, to Public Service Commission, to PMO, I have been ignored.

Prime Minister Paul Martin and his Liberals as the officers of GULAG in Canada, have deported me into the tortures chambers of GULAG of unemployment, ignorings, poverty, humiliation, and the gradual deaths.

Are all these measures against the lives of scientists based on Westminister-style democracy?

Are the tortures of GULAG approved in the House of Commons?

Why terrors? Why ignoring? Why elimination of lives and hopes?

How long ignoring? Do you have another colour for your blood ?

I am very disappointed.


Yours Sincerely,
A. Diba, PhD

Posted by: Abbas Diba at January 20, 2006 10:09 PM

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