The Income Trust Scandal: Incompetence
Paul Martin said a number of PMO people needed to know the details of the income trust taxation decision ahead of time.
I wondered just who really needed to know, since it seems like too many people knew.
On the question of who needed to know, a former PMO staffer got in touch with me with some insights:
Paul Martin is telling the truth, somewhat.
PMO coordinates two things: communications and policy. So Scott Reid would have needed to know, so that Goodale's press conference was not taking place at the same time as some other announcement. And the policy shop would have needed to know, so it did not contradict some overall government priority, etc. So those things are true.
But what he does not address is this: this was a matter of tax policy that had huge market implications. Those things are treated with budget-level secrecy. And, here, we know that was not the case -- junior staff were running around spouting off well before the press conference. Hell, John McKay went on TV to say what the tax policy was (and got it wrong)! It was madness.
We have the solid example from CTV of the call to CARP from Ralph Goodale's office that happened before the announcement.
Even if the leak was inadvertant, the whole thing was handled in a haphazard way. Which begs the question why should the Liberals be trusted with levers of government.
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Comments
Corrupt or incompetent? That's why this income trust scandal will stick to the Liberals. Either way, they come out of this as a corrupt, arrogant bunch of operatives who believe they are above the law; or, worse, as incompetent boobs who had no clue that releasing this info early to some people would have a dramatic impact on stock markets.
Pick your poison.
Posted by: The Innkeeper at December 31, 2005 11:17 AM
The Innkeeper wrote:
"Corrupt or incompetent? That's why this income trust scandal will stick to the Liberals. Either way, they come out of this as a corrupt, arrogant bunch of operatives who believe they are above the law; or, worse, as incompetent boobs who had no clue that releasing this info early to some people would have a dramatic impact on stock markets."
Corrupt or Incompetent that also describes PM PM in the Adscam Scandal. As Finance Minister he new nothing, Corrupt or incompetent? As Top Liberal in Quebec he new nothing about adscam, corrupt or incompetent ? As Prime Minister he new nothing about anything (maybe wind mills the way he flails his hands) corrupt or incompetent?
Posted by: capt_bob at December 31, 2005 12:03 PM
Great Blog! I added you to my site.
Posted by: Paulmartin at December 31, 2005 12:53 PM
Corrupt, entitled and arrogant--there is nothing incompetent about them--it is their arrogance that has lead to this disclosure. They have assumed for the last decade that Canadians are incompetent and lazy--they see themselves as above the law and completely in charge of their destiny. It is only because of bloggers that this has come to light in the first place. It is not the first time this scenario has happened in recent times--remember the Petrofina/Petrocanada buying and insider trading? They got away with it then. There was no one to keep their feet to the fire. Times have changed--some Canadians are watching and remembering and speaking up.
Obviously they see the elderly as easy pickings--first the Veteran's pension money and now ITs. No more--the bloggers are on to them--the MSM is playing catch-up
Keep up the good fight--our turn is coming.
Posted by: George at December 31, 2005 01:04 PM
And yet, capt bob, the Liberals still lead in the polls. What does that tell you about Canadian voters? What would it tell the rest of the world about Canada if the Liberals win the next election?
Posted by: Ed Minchau at December 31, 2005 01:14 PM
Ed, I sit bewildered seeing that the Liberals are still in the lead in polls, not by much but still in the lead.
There is still time for the PC's to bury the Fiberals. Hopefully this latest scandal of Income Trust, will make some of those yet undecided voters lean towards a PC vote.
If the Liberals do retrain power, I believe we will see the Quebec seperatists make that final push and perhaps this time successfully to leave Confederation. I also believe the seperatist movement in Alberta will gain huge momentum. A win for the Liberals will leave this once great country more devided than ever.
Harper truly needs to make the next few weeks count, especially in "vote rich" Ontario.
As for what another Liberal win will say about Canadian voters, I'm sure everyone will have an opinion on that, but I will reserve my answer until after the election. As for the way the rest of the world would think of Canada, well I suspect the Americans will not be thrilled, and I won't hazard a guess at what other nations might think.
Posted by: Rottigirl at December 31, 2005 01:51 PM
Is'nt it wonderful how Stephen Harper has learned to be the consumate politician in such a short time? By letting the Dippers carry the can on this one he has outfoxed the Liebrals at their own game. By his actions he is showing his true colours- a real Statesman by any measure.I used to think he was just getting lucky; now I know he is the real deal. Keep up the good work all you bloggers, it can and will make a difference. I am so hopeful that the momentum he has built up will carry through till Jan 23.
Posted by: Dave P from Campbell River at December 31, 2005 02:30 PM
We talk about the christian vote, the gay vote, the womens vote, but there is a block of voters out there that we never talk about. The Ignorant Vote. These people are the reason the Libs still lead in the polls. They go about their lives clueless as to the political issues of the day, and are happy to be so. These are the people who say "Harper is scary!" but then when pressed to, can't elaborate. These are the people who can't tell you who Gomery is or name their MP. Until we drag them kicking and screaming into a discussion of the issues, Lib support probably won't drop much.
Then again, I may be a wee bit cynical.
Posted by: at December 31, 2005 02:43 PM
I'm not at all sure that John McKay's going on TV to say what the tax policy was (and getting it wrong) was a bungle. It probably caused a lot of smaller investors, and some not so small, to make decisions that resulted in lower prices at the right time and more profit for "those in the know, the Liberal "friends" who were tipped off.
But I would not want to be those "friends" right about now. They are the easiest targets for the RCMP investigation. Their actions are a matter of record and it will be their emails and phone records that the RCMP will look at first.
Nor would I want to be the ones who tipped them off because some of the investors who profited will surely turn and become a witness for the prosecution to save their own skin.
This whole thing is going to blow sky high.
And don't forget. A private lawsuit will also get most of these sordid details into the record. Whether the RCMP investigation bears fruit or not I bet there are some lawyers right about now making plans to either represent a few of the individuals or companies who suffered losses or launch a class action lawsuit on their behalf. This is not like the sponsorship scandal. We have victims that are easily identified here.
Posted by: John Crittenden at December 31, 2005 04:32 PM
Yes indeed! The Ignorant Vote. These 'voters' have been interviewed 'ad nauseam' on CPAC and seem to need to grin mindlessly when being asked questions. I guess they think they defend their ignorance by making it all 'a joke'.
It is sad to think people gave their lives to defend the right of fools like this to vote. However, I recently heard that the levels of functional illiteracy in Canada are much higher than one would think. This may be their problem.
These people cannot read so will not be frequenting sites like this. They probably have no interest in the history and current affairs of their country so cannot understand how important it is to to be informed when casting a vote.
They probably do not read newspapers, so editorials, letters to the editor, and even political ads go over their heads. They get a little 'catch phrase' fed to them like "Stephen Harper is scary" and the Conservatives have a hidden agenda" it sounds good to them to be able to spout this back on command. It makes them feel as if they have some idea of what is going on.
It's simplistic, it's untrue, its cynical Liberal garbage but it has worked.
Perhaps those catch phrases should be replaced with some others, perhaps with a rhyme? Remember how well rhyming lines were remembered minds of a certain jury.
I also agree that if the Liberals get in again there will be a greater chance of the country splitting apart as the West will want out, as it cannot get in. The MSM have a lot to answer for too.
Posted by: H.L. at December 31, 2005 04:59 PM
Some people simply defy logic and reason. At a recent social event, a liberal tried to convince me that corruption was a natural part of the human condition. As it was unavoidable, therefore it was acceptable. He justified his vote by this pearl of logic... "Better the devil you know than the angel you don't, right?"
Are people uninformed because they've become so accused to corruption that they cease to pay attention anymore. It's just another Fiberal scandal... same as last month... and the month before... ad nauseam. Eventually, they just tune it all out. If so, how can anyone break through?
Personally, I thought the last election was a test and Canada failed. This election is the rewrite.
Posted by: Mac at December 31, 2005 05:28 PM
The 'ignorant' voter is the most important voter of all.
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that in the 2000 election, among people who had made up their minds before entering the "voting booth", 32% of these people voted Liberal, and 31% voted Canadian Alliance.
Of course, the Liberals earned a lot more votes from the 'ignorant' voter than did the Canadian Alliance, so they cruised once more to an ewasy Majority.
It's hard to get the message out to ignorant prople, but apparently easy to scare them.
Posted by: Jay at December 31, 2005 05:34 PM
The "ignorant" will show up at the polls on Jan 23rd and want to know where all the beer and popcorn went.
I think we give ourselves too much discredit. Polls are reactive, not projective. There has not been much polling done since the Dec 23rd, and I wonder if a lot of Canadians have been paying limited attention due to the Christmas season. I would be more interested in what happens after Jan 4th, when people get back to work and discover what has been going on over the last week. The Liberals internally are aready in full panic mode; as Kinsella says, their campaign is over. I suspect most Canadians will discover in the next couple of weeks how embarassing the Liberal party has become.
Posted by: john at December 31, 2005 06:00 PM
I notice that the NY Times (Ian Austen) published this story of the ITScandal today. Interesting that he didn't include the issue that the U.S. should be most concerned about in this mess...He doesn't mention the effect this alleged leak had on the interlisted securities (Canada and the 3 U.S. exchanges). If he studied the volume and price action for November 23rd he'd know this isn't isolated to Canadian Income Trusts. The dividend paying stocks also benefitted from this alleged leak... BCE, etc...Surprised the NY Times wouldn't want to investigate this story to the full degree.
Posted by: ann at December 31, 2005 06:20 PM
Liberal campaign chant will be:
WE DIDN'T DO IT
YOU DIDN'T SEE US DO IT
AND YOU CAN'T PROVE WE DID IT!
And there will be a lot of voters who will beleive them. "a--ho--s"
Posted by: capt_bob at December 31, 2005 08:03 PM
Thank God for blogs. This would not be a story at all if you people did not carry the ball. The way I see this is the major media had this stuff but kept it under wraps until the bloggers forced their hands. Last night, Dec 30, I watched 3 newscasts at eleven PM . CBC covered this as the second item after another murder in TO, a story already old. CTV covered it as a secondary story and Global didn't even touch it; it's frightening that our mainstream media can be so easily manipulated and on the other hand are so willing to manipulate the Canadian public. Canada owes you guys big time. Thanks again
Posted by: at December 31, 2005 10:51 PM
I've given up on the mainstream news media long ago.
BTW, Happy New Year Angry. Thanks for Angry in the Great White North. Best of everything in 2006.
Posted by: John Crittenden at January 1, 2006 12:04 AM
Did you happen to notice Sheila Copps’ column in the Toronto Sun today? She’s giving bloggers credit for staying with the Income Trust alleged leak story. She also has some interesting historical points that the RCMP should be interested in?
Posted by: ann at January 1, 2006 11:47 AM
Goody Goody said: What/which Party? Outside of the Party? New Year's Eve Party?
No. Liberal Party & other unnamed people outside the Liberal Party. Unnamed????? Who are these people?
Quote: "and ""one or two other senior people outside the party."". Ralph Goodale.
Name those "one or two senior people", Martin/Goodale.Canadian taxpayers demand to know their names.
Damning quote damning Martin, Goodale, & the Liberal Party. Down with Liberal corruption.>>>
"Asked if anyone outside the department of finance was involved in the decision-making process on the income trust announcement, Goodale said it was a "very, very closely held" decision, involving senior staff members and "one or two other senior people outside the party."
http://www.rapp.org/url/?BQOHNYTN
Posted by: maz2 at January 1, 2006 12:51 PM
Keep on truckin'!!! It's the only hope Canada has is
with blogs that keep ahead on the MSM!!!
Posted by: Richard Wolfe at January 1, 2006 08:31 PM
 
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